MTA:VC weapon selection unbalances the gameplay

[Si|ent]

Excuse me? In case you forgot, a cop's only chance to regain his armour level, is to go back to WBPD, or be lucky enough to find a deserted VCPD van somewhere and not have entered it before during that lifetime... In other words, good luck.

Whereas no other character in the game can use armour. at all. So your point is...?

As for your personal problems facing people armed with a stubby I'd recomend you practice keeping them at a reasonable distance and fire upon them with a more ranged weapon such as the ruger/shotgun/m60/mp5/colt45/m4/python/silenced ingram/tec9. If they do manage to sneak up on you then drop a grenade or a molotov if u have one. And jump now and then yourself too preferably when you see thier gun begin to raise. If the stubby hits you midjump you wont be knocked over.

For more tips on how to fight effectively in mtavc I recommend the 'how to hit people' thread inthe Useful Topics Forum.

Good luck

[Bob_TDH]

no balance, no balance and one more time there is no balance with that weapons and characters in mta

Mexican owns everybody, and i proved it to Ransom

and im going to prove it to anybody else who thinks there is smbd

more cool than mexican!

ps robber sucks and i cant understand why many experienced ppl like ransom choose that loser....and its really stupid to run all the time with stubby...

[Si|ent]

See bob that kind of proves my point

You are insisting the mexican is way stronger than anything else. Ransom is insisting the robber is way stronger than anything else. They cant both be

Personally I could take either with a sailor. Except right now im a little rusty thanks to easter break hehe.

[orappa]

You are insisting the mexican is way stronger than anything else. Ransom is insisting the robber is way stronger than anything else. They cant both be

Yep, I agree. The only one people seem to agree on is the Racer being weak, but as you say, he's no longer in 0.4 I'm looking forward to seeing his replacement.

[Zircon]

To answer the original question... no, the weapons are perfectly balanced. It's good to hear that the racer was taken out though.

I prefer the robber. In actuality, the stubby itself is weaker than the M60 and most other weapons - people have just found ways to use it effectively. I personally never jump during fights... I just run around my opponent, by the way.

I've stayed away from the mexican in 0.3 because the M60's accuracy seems to have dropped, and you have to aim in strange places in order for a hit to register. I hope this is fixed in 0.4... in 0.2, it was perfect. If you use the molotov trick however, you'll find the mexican much more useful, and the chainsaw is great against the people that stay in one position all the time when they're firing.

[Silencer131]

Exactly that is what I tried to create here: a good discussion about the balancing, getting the developers involved and that way simply asking them "is the weapon balance ok, think it over, isnt it unfair?" if the answer is "yeah everything is fine" (as we read here) then I'll be fine.

I will still play the cop at all times, but this time with the feeling "according to the developers, MTA balancing is all right". Though I can't stand that everyone goes for mexican and everyone is driving to the airport to find any action within the city (usually followed by bored mexicans shooting themselves at the spawn point). I will avoid mass jumping though, that is just sooo lame IMO. In any case, thanks for thinking this over, developers, I really wanted to be sure about this.

It would be interesting to go on with the discussion, of course.

update: I read the posting you suggested (about how to hit people correctly). Maybe you're right and it's not the weapons causing the problem but rather the issue with the server/client sync and aiming story. I guess as a cop I should also avoid the shotgun to limit issues while playing.

[VB6]

lol xenex i didint mean that huge gun i meant he gun is mini and its a gun just a little nickname

[Ransom]

no balance, no balance and one more time there is no balance with that weapons and characters in mta

Mexican owns everybody, and i proved it to Ransom

and im going to prove it to anybody else who thinks there is smbd

more cool than mexican!

ps robber sucks and i cant understand why many experienced ppl like ransom choose that loser....and its really stupid to run all the time with stubby...

I don't think you proved anything to me. The only reason I lost is because of fault on my own part, explaining the rounds:

1. In a bank, where I immediatly shot you, and I should have finished you off, but alas I did not switch weapons correctly (one of the rare occasions lol). Then you went down stairs and motolov'ed through the floor, but at best all that proved is mexicans can flame you through the bank floor.

2. We fought in the street, and if I recall I inflicted some good damage, but sadly I let the motolovs catch me, as you hid behind objects and waited, and due to me not being patient and that once again was my fault for being careless.

3. You were robber with me, and I beat you, but that round was kinda pointless since your idea was to prove me wrong about the mexican.

4. If I recall you were robber or mexican, and I killed you that round making it 2-2, I can't remember the details.

5. You decided to leave, but before we had one last fight at mexican. I will honestly say, I was shooting at you, but I was seemingly shooting blanks half the time it seemed. I am honest here. Anyways, I still managed to hit you well even with the motolov throwing. I ALMOST killed you, then you threw a motolov and I fired a few last shots at you to cause a draw, but sadly they went right through you. =/ Not to be offensive, but I just think you were a bit laggy.

I still believe that in the right hands, a robber can beat mexican. Even though it is not the easiet, it is entirely possible. Of course if you were waiting in complete openess, robber can be elminated easily with the combo of m60 while he approaches and the motolovs afterwards. In our situation, you knew exactly what to expect, me trying to kill you as robber, and you did use this robber weakness. This may be a good point saying it beats the robber, that may be true, but I think in all fairness, this is not a common occasion in everyday play. If I REALLY wanted to beat you, I could have waited for you to deplete your motolov source or used a car to get close, and possibly hit you, then get out and shoot you. Then I could have also used the car to cancel your motolov flames. But I really didn't have the will or time to do so.

No hard feelings,

your buddy,

Ransom

[[KFC] El Burro]

I really think they should remove the strong weapons to begin with, go find the weapons instead of strting with the best ones. I think everyone should start with somthing simple like a Pistol, Revolver or a Melee weapon and then u go hunt the better weapons down. This may even solve the annoying Spawn Wars at the Airport or on Prawn Island.

Get out and fight properly!!!

[Bob_TDH]

wtf ransom...what did u think??? ...maybe u thought that u going to play against some punk...i know that nobody know me here, cause all my mta gametime i spent on my russian server...but if u still think that u r smart robber boy, thats wrong...stubby is wrong...its lame...u know its for little kids, u dont need to think or plan smth with that thing..simple rule...get close and kill....but with mexican everything is more intresting...u got molotovs, chainsaw, m60...hehe, now u need to start to think how to use it right...

ps wanna fight more Ransom....i see u tough one:)

no chanse for u boy....sorry but this is true...

some my comments about our fight

1 fight...killed few vcp and ransom with molotovs in the bank...won

2 fight...molotov and then m60... won

3 fight...played with robber just start feel sorry for poor ransom..lost:)

4 fight...dont remember:)

5 fight..that was good one...in airport terminal...molotovs, 20% left...but won!

so Ransom i will find u one more time...but i think there is no point at all that fights cause as i said mexican owns everybody....

[{ULK}Posty]

wtf ransom...what did u think??? ...maybe u thought that u going to play against some punk...i know that nobody know me here, cause all my mta gametime i spent on my russian server...but if u still think that u r smart robber boy, thats wrong...stubby is wrong...its lame...u know its for little kids, u dont need to think or plan smth with that thing..simple rule...get close and kill....but with mexican everything is more intresting...u got molotovs, chainsaw, m60...hehe, now u need to start to think how to use it right...

ps wanna fight more Ransom....i see u tough one:)

no chanse for u boy....sorry but this is true...

some my comments about our fight

1 fight...killed few vcp and ransom with molotovs in the bank...won

2 fight...molotov and then m60... won

3 fight...played with robber just start feel sorry for poor ransom..lost:)

4 fight...dont remember:)

5 fight..that was good one...in airport terminal...molotovs, 20% left...but won!

so Ransom i will find u one more time...but i think there is no point at all that fights cause as i said mexican owns everybody....

You seem to use moltovs alot.. Molotovs are very lame in mta because of the glitch, it takes no skill. Stubby takes skill to use and to evade. If you are new and use the stubby at first, you wont kill anyone really. Trust me, I've faced stubby n00bs, they suck. I've also faced my brother in stubby wars in mta and he had only played single player. Guess who won? Me, because I knew how to evade them and if he evaded I knew where to aim to get him on his run. Molotovs are very lame because of the glitch. People spam them so they have fire around them and stuff so they cant really get hit. So lame, and I'm not speaking on my own opinion. Almost everyone hates continuous molotov glitchers.

[happyrock]

yeah the wonderful moltov glich. I bet most poeple would not use them with the 100% effectiveness at short range. meaning never caughing your self on fire.

[Ransom]

Bob - I'm simply saying just because you beat me that one night doesn't mean I believe mexican is better. Judging by the fact you live on the opposite side of the world tipped the odds in your favor. Why? Well when you threw your motolovs, they could still hit me as they covered a wide area even though they were laggy, but when I would directly shoot you with the stubby, more often than not, the shots were blanks. The lag going through plays a larger role on robber since the coverage is much smaller.

I know mexican is harder to kill, but if I REALLY wanted to beat one I could get into a lot more dirty tactics than what I showed that night

[Silencer131]

All right, I did as it was suggested here and read the mentioned board thread. By aiming as it was described I was able to kill a lot more often (though that robber still gives me a hard time with his gun) than ever before. Now I would rather think the weapon selection is slightely unbalanced, however, if you hardly hit anything it is rather a targeting issue in MTA.

Slightly unbalanced because the cop's shotgun seems to miss most of the times when I used it (and if it hits, it doesnt do much damage, probably due to the spreaded bullets). Yes, I know, you said in reality cops are underpowered (or something similar you said) but if this game was about reality then there wouldnt be flamethrowers laying around in town. It is just about balancing. Why not change the cop at least? Maybe by taking away the armor and adding a more effective gun than the useless shotgun or so, there are many ways to improve it, I guess.

[Si|ent]

but if this game was about reality then there wouldnt be flamethrowers laying around in town

Haha, very true

The cop shotty is a pretty powerful weapon itself. although it cannot kill in one shot like the robbers stubby it does a significant amount of damage, has a much faster rate of fire and a much better range. I know a few people who prefer it and will swap a stubby for it when given the chance

[Silencer131]

I guess I gotta go on trying then. I just tried it and I always lost against mexican and robber (seems most people pick these characters), guess I am out of luck. Any hints how to kill properly with the cop shotgun?

[dystopia]

Lets see, if i remember correctly 2 full blows from the cop does abotu 40-50 damage, i'd just pop them twice (once starts knocking them down, second hits before they fall) then wait for them to get up and repeat, one or two falls should do it

[Slothman]

dont forget to stand back with the cop shotgun, it has a longer range than a shotty, so use that to your advantage.

[Prokopis]

Yeah, but that means less chance of actually hitting them if they haven't fallen exactly where you think they have.

Anyways, I don't think there's any doubt that the chromey is substantially less powerful than any other shotgun. Even with it's longer range, it still fails to help you wade through a crowd in a DM war.

[Zircon]

The chrome shotgun has a better range, but it inflicts less damage. You have to knock the person down and shoot him multiple times in order to kill him. I personally find the stubby more effective... its range is reasonable enough, and you can kill as soon as you knock your opponent down (the cops require a bit more shooting however).

[Ransom]

Things are not horribly off-balanced, but lag is the big factor. I mean if you got a laggy person with a stubby, chances are they are gonna cream you before you get lucky enough to sucessfully hit them 3-5 times with a chrome shotgun.

[HeAD.ULK]

any class can beat any other class, no matter what weapon or tactic your opponent may be using, there is always something you can do to counter them.

personally, i prefer the sailor over any other class, except when a spawn war is going on, the sailor is the only class i use. just grab the shotgun, molotovs, and tec9/uzi that are near the sailor spawn. it takes me less than 1 minute to get these weapons. once i have them i go hunt the nearest mex or robber, and if there arent any around, i go to one of the stubby pickups on the map. a sailor with a m60/uzi/stubby is almost unstoppable in the right persons hands. when i get these weapons i almost always make upwards of 20 kills before i die.

[Ransom]

The point here is not that it makes killing someone impossible, but that the balancing is off making some classes much better than others. When you talk about using different weapons that doesn't really address this issue of balancing.

[Si|ent]

Balance is not just your starting weapons though ransom. Is is your spawn location, the vehicles at spawn and nearby. The weapon pickups nearby. The special abilities you have etc. How close other careers spawn are to you. Don't simplify it to 'my gun is better than yours'

[Prokopis]

Why not? I think it is really simple and most definitely is about the weaps. At least way more than it is about the spawn location and spawn vecs. After finding a ride and going to where the action is, who is gonna care about how difficult it was for others to get there or what kinda crappy car they had to drive to do it? Just cause a cop had to come all the way over from WBPD in a van/faggio means others will go easy on him or something to support the balancing of the game?

What you're packing and how deadly it is is all others care about and so do I. And I don't think we should be discussing what happens when anyone walks over 2-3 picks, cause after that it's not even a case of CLASS balancing, rather a matter of skill, weaps power (which has been my point), and like Head said () knowing what counters what and how. Ideally the game becomes perfectly balanced when everyone gets all the guns.

I asked it before and I'll ask it again: is there anyone here that thinks the chromey is overall better than any other shotgun? Like I said, it's all about the guns...