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Are these cheats?

Guest Nonnymoose

By Guest Nonnymoose
in General MTA:VC

Should Weapon Switching and FPS Abuse be considered cheating and Dealt with in the same manner as Speed Hacks, Flying Cars, Health cheats and so forth?  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Weapon Switching and FPS Abuse be considered cheating and Dealt with in the same manner as Speed Hacks, Flying Cars, Health cheats and so forth?

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      27

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Prokopis Hustler

Prokopis

Posted
Posted

Master's right, assuming all players are on fast new comps where taking off the cap will send the fps skyrocketing to the +60's and double the game's average speed. That is by all means cheating and BTW Utopia, your point's hollow, since I believe the frame limiter is on by default when you install Vice. Going by the strictest "leaving VC alove" mentality would dictate not disabling the limiter (although changin the ingame options IMO has nothing to do with that mentality anyway).

However, for ppl with slow PCs, like 1 gen behind @ <1.5GHz CPU speed, fewer RAM and a 64MB max GFX card running a heavy OS like the XPs, having the limiter turned off would probly be the only way for them to keep the game playable at an acceptable speed. So overall the conclusion to this lil convo is you can't just wave your Damoclean sword above every1's head and decide regardless that "FPS limiting should or should not be allowed, period".

For all we know the draw distance might be contributing to this the same way. Should we say reducing to min draw distance is cheating as well?

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Guardians Proper Banger

Guardians Proper

Posted
Posted
Surprisingly having the framelimiter ON improves performance for older/slower pc's.

Or could have no effect at all... Since most "old" PCs wouldn't pass 30 fps anyway, whether the frame limiter was on or off, they wouldn't hit 30 fps.

:shock:

Having the frame limiter off doesn't change any speeds. It doesn't make you any faster or give you any advantages. Whether your game is at 1 fps or 90 fps, the game still goes the same speed but more choppy. So, the only advantage you might say, is that their game is smoother, but that's simply an assumption. I play with mine off and my game never passes 30 fps! :x

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Si|ent Hoo-Rider

Si|ent

Posted
Posted
Or could have no effect at all... Since most "old" PCs wouldn't pass 30 fps anyway, whether the frame limiter was on or off, they wouldn't hit 30 fps.

Yes it does, its the way the limiter works that improves performance elsewhere. Wether the framerate reaches 30 or not.

Having the frame limiter off doesn't change any speeds

If your PC is fast then yes, it does.

Whether your game is at 1 fps or 90 fps, the game still goes the same speed but more choppy

Incorrect. 1fps doesnt mean u will leap 50 feet in the car for every frame, it means u will only see one frame per second, be it your foot stretching forward painfully slowly in a running animation, or your car inching forward. Therefore 90fps means everything will be running MUCH faster bringing with it an increase in velocity etc.

Try playing some 15 year old dos games for a demonstration of this effect. They run so fast on modern PC's as to be unplayable without using an application to force them to slow down.

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Guardians Proper Banger

Guardians Proper

Posted
Posted

Playing at 1 FPS or 90 FPS doesn't make your game faster. But if you have 90 FPS, you will see more frames, making your game smoother.

Big difference between speed and smoothness.

:shock:

Frame limiter on or off, 1 FPS or 90 FPS, in reality, has no effect on your player itself. But it may have an effect on you, because who can play well with 1 frame per second?

:shock:

For a guy with 1 FPS, it doesn't take 90 frames to accomplish what a 90 FPS guy can do in 1 frame. The game still goes the same speed, except the guy at 1 FPS sees less of it. Which brings us around full circle to what I just stated about it being difficult to play at 1 FPS.

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Prokopis Hustler

Prokopis

Posted
Posted
[...]Surprisingly having the framelimiter ON improves performance for older/slower pc's.

Hmm you know, I've heard ppl say that a few times (yourself included) and I don't know how many of them have actually seen that on a slower comp. I think I've grown curious enough by now that I may just put it to the test later this summer, when I get hooked up with my old P3 800MHz & 32meg Riva TNT2 PC again that is (yay, I can hardly wait :roll:...).

Anyway if it's true that it doesn't do pretty much anything to older rigs and since it's not of much use to those that have brand new ones either, I've come to believe it was just a wrong call on R*'s part to put it in.

BTW Utopia, like Bump said, turning the limiter off does speed up the game; sometimes not just by a factor of 2. Saying "whether your game is at 1 fps or 90 fps, the game still goes the same speed " is flat out untrue. The game's clock and it's various rendering processes are tied to the output FPS and you can easily tell by a dozen things that go quirky when you take the cap off (actors' animations, bubble traffic and planes' speed, other ambient animations like the sea or the traffic lights, etc).

Just to give you an idea, I was running FRAPS cause I wanted an indicator and I'd see it reach values up to 150fps at times during normal ingame play when there'd be very few stuff to render (say for example @ the airport). The speeds @ those times would be way faster, not to mention it tends to throw the whole game off balance to a half-frozen state (sometimes it can't recover and you have to kill the process). I mean FFS I usually turn it off when I'm bored and want to get from A to B faster and to Fast Forward my SP replays. With replays being so fast that it can cover the 20secs leading to a stunt in 5 or 6 secs, I definitely think the lack of a framerate cap can rox0rz j00 box0rz.

Bottom line is it does speed the game up seriously and in MP it's an unfair advantage over every1 else in the same server. Frankly I can't understand why you won't accept that and just play normally :/

Edit:

[...]Try playing some 15 year old dos games for a demonstration of this effect. They run so fast on modern PC's as to be unplayable without using an application to force them to slow down.

Lol case and point a Descent 1 demo I found laying around a few years ago in some backup CD I'd made and I tried to run on my 800Mhz PC. You should see that lil spaceship floatin up and down so fast when I wasn't movin it, it was like hyper-spaz mode or something :o. Hilarious to see, impossible to play.

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Lara C. Punk-@ss B*tch

Lara C.

Posted
Posted
>>>
almost get 2 shots in by the time I had gone totally through 1.
>>> Can someone from MTA let us know whether they would consider NOT using the frame limiter as a cheat?

Ever since i play GTA or MTA i NEVER came along any comments/instructions that *not* using the limiter is considered a 'cheat'.

Then please tell the others, who *DO* use the limiter that they're having a disadvantage and better turn it OFF - but refrain from accusing the other people of cheating. We have enough real *cheaters* around.

When i was still on dial-up i often got comments like get a freaking broadband connection for fair play...and from that point of view i'd also rather tell people with a slow computer "get a better/up-to date computer' or turn FPS OFF instead of accusing the others of cheating....

(shakes head...)

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Si|ent Hoo-Rider

Si|ent

Posted
Posted
For a guy with 1 FPS, it doesn't take 90 frames to accomplish what a 90 FPS guy can do in 1 frame. The game still goes the same speed

Wrong

Prokopis: my machine is old and cranky enough to confirm that turning it on increases performance slightly, basicaly it 'caps' that particular process and concentrates the rest of the 'power' on calculating game mechanics etc rather than rendering. This doesnt have the same effect for a faster pc because it has plenty of power to handle everything and still push out 90 fps without breeaking into a sweat

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Kent747 Hard-@ss

Kent747

Posted
Posted

there have been talks about this subject over many different game dev discussions...

when physics and gametime are calculated, its done by checking your system clock and it approximates your current framerate and does objects adjustments accordingly... but things aren't perfect at extremely high and extremely low framerates.. or during times where there is a large variance in framerate (i.e. goingn really high, then really low).. this stuff can trip up physics engines and allow weird things to happen, (or cause your game to seem to run faster or slower)... (some of you may remember a bug existing where you couldn't access a certain part of the map unless you were getting approx 60 fps)..

in a general since for MP gaming its better that everyone keep the frame limiter on, to avoid any desync stuff...

so I guess in a sense both of you guys are right... the physics tries to keep it running at the same speed regardless of framerate.. but its not perfect.

Kent

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Prokopis Hustler

Prokopis

Posted
Posted

...asked the hypocrite.

[...]Sorry, but I've never seen anyone with a frame limiter ON move that fast, lagger or not![...]
[...]I never said I was against "speeding up" your game. But I don't use mods/hacks to do it; I just turn the frame limiter off. I am, in turn, against using mods/hacks to speed up the game.

;)

[...]

[...]In relation to speed mods, using a program, hack, or mod, to speed your game is an external program. Had RockStar included a "Game Speed:" slider bar within the Options menu, it'd be a different story. By clicking the frame limiter to "OFF" is a simple option, whereas, a speed mod is a user-created external cheat.

Is the frame limiter lame? Hm, it's of no importance to me whether or not it's lame. That's all a matter of morals.[...]

(All snippets of this little anthology were taken from another popular thread, found here.)

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Guardians Proper Banger

Guardians Proper

Posted
Posted

And this was of course prior to Zircon and I's test trial and examination of the frame limiter....

Turns out we, and almost the entire MTA community, were wrong about the frame limiter.

If you don't believe me, you can ask Zircon for yourself.

:roll:

Since he's a respected and honored member of the community; maybe you'll take his word?...:P :P

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Zircon Hustler

Zircon

Posted
Posted

I've ran two tests with some KFCs regarding the frame limiter.

The first with Nutz in one of his servers. He had his frame limiter off, and I had my on. We both ran to the other end of the street - neither of us gained any distance ahead of the other. I turned mine off and we ran back... still a tie.

The last one was with Utopia. We both found that we moved extra speedy with the stubby after we shot (that's what caused the argument a few days ago). We had to record quite a few videos of each other and toggle our frame limiters on and off... required a bit of experimenting, but we finally found out what it was. It just involved a certain 'trick' that we had been doing for quite a while. It triggered the warp in both of us - we have no idea why, but the frame limiter certainly has nothing to do with it. :shock:

So I really don't know what this whole argument is revolving around. Let's put aside the fact that your FPS increases and you move smoother and supposedly faster on your screen - I have not noticed any adverse effects of the other person's frame limiter being off in any of these tests... =\

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Guardians Proper Banger

Guardians Proper

Posted
Posted
I suggest you read kents post, you seem to have skipped past it.

I read it, believe me... ;)

I've never witnessed anyone running faster on foot for any reason regarding the frame limiter... Unless of course it was a speedhack...

Considering that any number of people play with it ON or OFF, by this time, you would have witnessed some sort of difference in speeds... (Those who move fast, those who move slow).

It seems to be that it's nothing more than an excuse for dying. Even with my frame limiter on, people still say "Turn your frame limiter on, you lamer"...

:roll:

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