Honorary Members

[VCES>RonSeal]

I have a question regarding 'Honorary Members',and what it actually means.

I have seen many Full time Members of one clan,being 'Honorary Members' in another clan.

That in itself i have no problem with,its like stating your friendship,or declaring that you are Allies.

But from time to time,i see Clans playing matches with 'Honorary' members fighting alongside them.

This i find a little wierd.

For example,i noticed [FMJ]Oli played in the ULK team against KFC.

No disrespect,i understand why people would want an Oli on their team.

But in my eyes,it is no longer an ULK team.

ULK is whoever belongs to ULK,and surely ULK has 8 high quality players.

If i play ULK,i'd expect to face ULK,same goes for any clan we fight.

I feel bringing other Clan members in for a match is unfair.

Where does it end?

We could end up playing the same 'Top' Players every week

Im not digging at Honorary members,its a harmless thing,but i believe you should pick your clan,and represent them only.

I wont allow VCES members to play for other clans,they play for VCES.

Why bother trying to recruit and build a good team,if i just use others for matches

Im not starting anything here, ULK is purely an example as its recent.

With these clan matches,the water is muddy enough already,without bringing in 'Honorary' members into it.

Its up to each clan of course,but the above is mine and the VCES Opinion,and thats how we intend to play other clans.

Is this a popular view?

Hows about some debate here

[Guest]

the thing with honorary members fighting for clans is more something along the lines of "thats the clan they would be in if the one they were in right now didnt exist"

is it illegal to have one or two honorary players play for you during a match? i certainly dont think it does.

if the mta community as a whole is really deadset against using one or two honorary members during a match then we will stop, but i didnt think it was that big of a deal

[+FKU+VVolven]

As I see it, honourary's, aside from what has been said about friendships/alliances and being, um, junior members I guess, are people who you can call up for gangwars if you happen to be shorthanded. It'd really blow to plan an 8 on 8, have one or two people from one team not show up so one or two from the other team HAVE to sit out, especially with those in the MTA community as a lot of the players really look forward to these matches.

[VCES>RonSeal]

Well the way we work it is,we recruit enough players to at least field a team of 8 at one time.

We arrange our Matches at a time when we know our team is on.

Weve played over 12 matches,and have never needed to 'Bring' anyone in.

I would of thought at least most of the clans with a thread in this forum could do the same.

Tonight Death played with FMJ against KFC,ive got no problem with that if thats how they want to do it.

I just thought FMJ could provide their own 8 best players,they have enough.

How about the poor members who join a clan to play in matches,and other clan players get in ahead of them.

Its like a professional Football team,they dont pick the best from other teams,when they've got a match on.

Anyway im not going to tell anyone what to do here,i just wondered how the majority felt about it.

VCES though insist on playing opposing clan teams without honorary members.

[Oli]

im starting to agree with this actually, so FMJ wont be playing ANY honourary members from now on (apart from if we are really short of players). I thought id try it a) to give db another chance against KFC and b) to see if it helped.

I didnt see it made much difference so we wont be doing it again. No harm in trying once though eh??

In my opinion, honourary members are about showing gang relations. I am in ULK for example simply because FMJ and ULK have an alliance. This shows that we can depend on each other if need be. If ULK are short of people then they can depend on me to play for them and vice versa with deathb. Thats all it is really. If im short of players again ill use deathb again, but only if i cant get enough FMJ's at the time.

EDIT: FMJ were actually short of ppl today. If deathb hadnt played it would have meant we had only 7 ppl. Just so u know

Edited June 13, 2004 by Guest

[DominionSpy]

Hi RonSeal,

I wondered if this had anything to do with the KFC match tonight.

Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Any way - on the point of finding a team of 8, let me just give you a few stats:

Members of Teams

KFC 56

ULK 46

TmM 24

VCK 22

VCES 21

FMJ 18

Those are from the official gang member lists, doing my best not to count 'honorary' members.

In FMJ I've noticed that it's actually fairly hard to get 6 members for a match let alone 8.

Regarding DeathB - when I knew he was going to be playing with us, I had reservations. But they were about a TmM knowing our tactics rather than whether or not it was right for him to be playing. Especially when ULK and FMJ are allies.

That's all I've got to say at the moment - just saying my two pennies' worth.

[edit] Hehe - Oli got in there just before me [/edit]

[Guardians Proper]

I don't believe it matters if you use honorary members.

If someone wants to fight for "their clan", than it's fine.

Although, for example, I couldn't go and fight for FKU in a war.

I'm no 'Honorary Member', however, if I was an honorary member of some clan, I could sub in for a lack of members (FKU needs 1 more member and I'm the only one around).

It seems that honorary members are backup clan members, probably only used for gangwars.

It all seems acceptable to me.

[nick]

and that's where we Differ, as stated. we dont need the best players from various clans.... we've raised our own.

[VCES>RonSeal]

i can understand why some people would need someone to fill the gaps,i was just suprised really clans like ULK,FMJ and a few others had spots to fill.

ULK 46

They must be able to field 8 players at one time,especially if the match is planned in advance.

I mean,for example,and with no offence to the person mentioned.

PointBlank,hes a good player,and i like him too,but ive played against him at least 3 times,with him in different tags.

With ULK, KFC and his own former clan NS.

Ok the former clan one is different,but he was in NS when he played for ULK and KFC.

Both these clans have enough strength in depth to field a team of Pure Members,for want of a better word.

Using an Honorary member or two in a match,instead of you own,is saying your clan hasnt got enough skilled players to do the job alone.

If your a small clan,and you havent got enough people,then fair enough.

But i was very suprised to see Oli in the ULK / KFC match,after all the build up i expected to see all the ULK big Guns

Keep playing this game the way it suits you,im not preaching to you,just wanted to ask a serious question on this board for once.

[Guardians Proper]

KFC never used Point Blank when he was in NS...

We don't have any honorary members of any kind; we only use KFC members.

[Oli]

well i did want to try it, plus we were short of ppl. I can see its something of some contrversy so ill stick away from it. I dont want ppl to think FMJ isnt strong enough to fight for themselves, and ive stated why we did it today.

Next week we will face KFC again, i really hope that match goes smoother cos tonight there were times when you wouldbe have thought it was a friendly match.

As for other clans, i guess its thier choice.

[Point Blank]

i only ever subed in a war for ulk back when ns was a gang but now they merged with kfc so i play with there tag now

[Zircon]

Nothing's wrong with honorary members in my mind. It's been a long tradition in MTA, and up until now, I thought it was generally accepted among the community...

Honorary members in ULK (there's only seven at the moment) aren't treated exactly like full members. Their access level is lower in our channel on IRC, they can't view all of our private forums, and generally don't participate in many of our matches, unless asked.

And about the war with KFC, that match was corrupt in every shape and form, anyway... I think that we all realize that by now. We had a solid roster, be it full members or not (doesn't make any difference to us), but apparently it wasn't enough for the superman on KFC's side.

[Oli]

lol lets not drag the KFC v ULK thing into here. KFC v FMJ went better than the ULK match. It was a VERY close match, so im happy there. DeathB got to play in that too, as an honourary. And to let him in we did make him take the FMJ tests, and he will be on the roster when i update the site. This helps strengthen the FMJ ULK relationship i think.

But we wont be playing honouraries unless needed from now on

[[KFC]KungFu]

KFC has never used an honorary player and no KFCs are honorary players for any other gang.

We do not have 56 active members it's closer to 20 something but all really active.

I believe Honorary members are lame I have always felt this way. If your gang isn't stong enough then recruit and if the honorary person wants to fight with you he should join.

What is a gang without loyalty and what is loyalty when it's diluted? Just my opinion. I have not made an issue of honoraries before but I may decide to play only "full" member gangs.

We have never had a problem sliming down to even up the teams if you are short. Personally i wouldn't want to win based on the efforts of a member from another gang.

Glad to see some people are coming around

[Guest]

just posting up my support for what Ronseal and others are saying here. My thoughts and feelings with respect to honorary's are much the same as Ronseal's and KungFuGrip's. A clan member should be loyal to their own clan only, and pre-scheduled matches where both clans have agreed to a time should be members only, not honorary's. It is slightly different for spur of the moment matches, but certainly for any league matches then pure teams only in my opinion should be used.

[Ransom]

Hmmm... yea I guess it is getting annoying to show up for a war against a clan and notice 3 awesome gang leaders are playing for them or something. Also annoying to see the same person playing in 2 clans you have just faced. Reveals your tactics.

But then again, if honorary is gone, I'm sure some will be doing the old false name trick to secretly squeeze someone in if the lineup is short (Yes I have seen that a few times in my MTA days). But you can't squash any idea because of that.

[[KFC]KungFu]

Hmmm... yea I guess it is getting annoying to show up for a war against a clan and notice 3 awesome gang leaders are playing for them or something. Also annoying to see the same person playing in 2 clans you have just faced. Reveals your tactics.

But then again, if honorary is gone, I'm sure some will be doing the old false name trick to secretly squeeze someone in if the lineup is short (Yes I have seen that a few times in my MTA days). But you can't squash any idea because of that.

I have seen that some will stoop really low but... Anyone who would wear someone elses name or let someone wear thier name deserves the flesh eating disease on thier nutsack

[DominionSpy]

I have seen that some will stoop really low but... Anyone who would wear someone elses name or let someone wear thier name deserves the flesh eating disease on thier nutsack

Do you mean Necrotizing Fasciitis, which develops from a strain of Streptococcus? Because that is seriously scary - someone sneezed on another person's leg and he had to have it amputated before it spread too far

This is what is popularly known as 'flesh-eating bacteria'.

[[KFC]KungFu]

I have seen that some will stoop really low but... Anyone who would wear someone elses name or let someone wear thier name deserves the flesh eating disease on thier nutsack

Do you mean Necrotizing Fasciitis, which develops from a strain of Streptococcus? Because that is seriously scary - someone sneezed on another person's leg and he had to have it amputated before it spread too far

This is what is popularly known as 'flesh-eating bacteria'.

Yeah thanks Professor that's what I meant... Tell gilligan and the skipper I said hi

[OpiuM.]

ill put my word in i guess, i only like honarary if they are not taking a acual members spot in a gangwar

[[KFC]KungFu]

That's only one problem.

What if the honorary saves your ass? Did you win or did a stranger win for you? If I can't get enough ppl recruited or available for a war I would rather play with less on more or forfeit the match. I want all of our wins to be on the backs of those that are part of the gang.

If people want to lame and wear fake names to unofficially sub in then they are free to be lame but KFC has never played a non member in a game. There is no KFC allies.. KFC trainees... KFC honoraries. It's all or nothing with us or against us and that's the way I like it.

I won't tell ppl what to do with thier gangs anymore than I would listen to ppl telling me what to do. But KFC will only play gangs with full members from now on. We have fans that will join every gang just to see us again and it changes the dynamic of our gang relationships. If we have good relations with a gang an like all thier players no problem, they can fuck that up really easily by allowing someone with a hardon for KFC to sub in for them.

We are flexable I would like to fill the server but we will fight with as little as 5 on 5 to accomadate a gang that can't get numbers available. When someone puts a tag on they should be dedicated to that gang. If not then the tag is meaningless since they can wear another one next week.

[VCES>RonSeal]

But KFC will only play gangs with full members from now on.

We at VCES also take that stance,would any other Clan care to agree to this?

[[KFC]KungFu]

Great to hear.. If you do this then two other gangs that use honoraries are free to use them with each other.

I just will not let them fight against us is all. I can't say what others will do but I can decide what we will not do.

[OpiuM.]

i think every clan should

*waits for other's clan members to agree