MTA:VC weapon selection unbalances the gameplay

[Silencer131]

Hi,

Even with the new version coming up I somehow really lost fun playing MTA VC. The reason? I think MTA's game balancing is totally unbalanced. The Mexican has the minigun, a big pistol AND a chainsaw; each a strong weapon for every kind of distance while the cop only has some staff, pistol and a shotgun (which spreads its shot, while the minigun focuses mainly on one spot). Okay, he got a bullet proof but that is no real match for the weaponry of the Mexican. I guess that is why so many choose it. The few choosing the cop or some other character is just because we got attached to it but this doesnt solve the problem since sooner or later you really got enough of this unbalanced combat. Playing the mexican isnt fun either (did that many times) since the game gets too easy then (I was able to kill 4 out of 5 guys usually without dieing in between).

Instead of upgrading the cop with more weapons the Mexican should be downgraded by either changing a few weapons or totally take them away.

The minigun should not be chooseable by any character. Just like the flamethrower it should be hidden somewhere in town so everyone has theoretically the chance to find and use it but not start with it.

Edited April 14, 2004 by Guest

[dystopia]

There are only so many weapons in the game, and every character has his weak points. A skilled person could easily kill a mexican with a crusader, I kill them with the robber all the time. Playing as the mexican, i've been killed by cops too, it's all about strategy to level the plain

[l2ebel]

Hi,

The minigun should not be chooseable by any character. Just like the flamethrower it should be hidden somewhere in town so everyone has theoretically the chance to find and use it but not start with it.

hi, first of all, the mexicans dont have miniguns they have m60's and i think in the end theres always someone complaining so imo there should be a weapon selection for every character with classes...

class A = pistol tek.. mac.. pyton....

B = chainsaw...katana (hope it will be in 0.4)...bat...

C = stubby...m60... and so on

this way every char could choose 1 weapon of every class and nobody would be complaining about balancing

edit: my point/s: i didnt play dm often till yet but when i did i was 80% mex, even if i had to drive to downtown to get to the action i was just living longer with the mex than any other char

pro and contras:

+it would reduce spawnwars drastically (all spawnwars ive seen were mex or rob coz of m60 and stubby)

+it would make ppl stop complaining, more equal gameplay

+i wouldnt have to travel thru the whole city to get to the action <-- that might be just me

-it may reduce the careers gameplay since everyone could choose their own weaps

imo it would have more pros in the end and i would rather like to have it this way than changing career setups everytime someone doesnt like the current setup

in the end it isnt a balancing issue anymore but a skill, you choose and use your weapons and how sucessful you do is your problem

edit2:

A skilled person could easily kill a mexican with a crusader

of course, a skilled player could also kill everyone with a golf caddy, i usually choose the mex or rob, most ppl do, i heard many gang ppl say the same as you do but till yet i only ever saw them as robbers *cough*stubby whores*cough*

oh and Silencer131: could you plz add another poll option? some thing like

: include a weapon selection to solve the problem i would maybe do it myself but i still dont have my mod powers back

Edited April 15, 2004 by Guest

[Ransom]

My only complaints:

A. The robber is undoubtedly the most powerful ever since the jumping glitch got out. I remember when only Loendal knew that glitch and thats probably a big reason of why he gained so much fame (back in .2, probably before that). If I recall he's the first that used it. Anyways, that glitch makes the robber the choice for all the pros, and it gets rather annoying, which ties in with many robber spawn wars.

B. The racer in my opinion... just plain sucks. His weapons are ALL weak. Its almost like an option for stunters who want to stunt in deathmatch mode. It doesn't stand a CHANCE most times. I think its best attack is simply running circles with that weak uzi (at least thats what the very small percentage of people who use it do), but they don't stand a chance most times against good players, especially trying to run circles around robbers since being close to a robber = death when you're playing a pro.

[StAnToN]

gotta say that the cops are ther weakest i feel, so the weapons should be changed and put so that they are more even between all of the characters

[Black Dragon]

hell, i think that the crusader is the most powerfull man having the uzi and the molotoves! thats why most of the time i choose him, and people cant flame me for always using an "overpowered" char!

its every man for his favorite char (although i dont think that there are people who like the racer...)

[Slothman]

bump already said that the racer is out, as far as the rest are concerned, I think they did an incredible job with the balance. if you can't kill with one of the characters (other than racer), then it's not a balance issue, it's a "the other guy is better with his character than you are with yours" issue.

[VB6]

the racer suxor unless u got a good aim with the minigun lol

[SM xenex]

the racer suxor unless u got a good aim with the minigun lol

There is no miniguun in mta ...............

[orappa]

the racer suxor unless u got a good aim with the minigun lol

There is no miniguun in mta ...............

Yeah, anyone who has a minigun is cheating.

[Silencer131]

Where did the poll go, moderators?

What do the devs say to the balancing issue? It is not just "the other guy is better" if I kill so many with the mexican and its... M60 (minigun, M60, whatever, you get the idea, dont you?).

[l2ebel]

gotcha

but i dont get where the poll went, i already wanted to add another option (if its k for you) but then saw you removed it obviously it wasnt you, me neither

hmm just start a new one and if someone deletes it again PLZ post a reply and a reason

[Silencer131]

No, I didnt delete it. How do I make a new one without creating a new thread?

What choice did you want to add?

[Bob_TDH]

Mexican rules

Robber sucks

and thats it, i can kill easy any stupid robber, u know why,

cause u cant get away from my molotovs, and dont forget about

m60....robber even not going to make two steps...common guys

robber sucks...wanna fight againts my mexican...

im always be waiting...look at signature and try to find me there.

ps dont forget about chainsaw...

[l2ebel]

No, I didnt delete it. How do I make a new one without creating a new thread?

What choice did you want to add?

just edit your first post and add the poll as you did when you created the topic

poll option i would like: being able to choose your own weapons in classes(read 3rd post)

Bob_TDH: thats a word, im sure some ppl will *stares at Ransom*

[Silencer131]

Thanks, poll is up. What I don't understand is the answer you wanted me to add. If I understood you correctly then everyone could simply choose the best weapons of each class? Wouldnt everyone take the strongest of each weapons then? Or did you mean to limit the selection to one weapon of your choice?

[l2ebel]

Thanks, poll is up. What I don't understand is the answer you wanted me to add. If I understood you correctly then everyone could simply choose the best weapons of each class? Wouldnt everyone take the strongest of each weapons then? Or did you mean to limit the selection to one weapon of your choice?

yes i actually meant to choose all weapons but your other idea (only 1 weap of choice) is also good

my point/s: i didnt play dm often till yet but when i did i was 80% mex, even if i had to drive to downtown to get to the action i was just living longer with the mex than any other char

pro and contras:

+it would reduce spawnwars drastically (all spawnwars ive seen were mex or rob coz of m60 and stubby)

+it would make ppl stop complaining, more equal gameplay

+i wouldnt have to travel thru the whole city to get to the action <-- that might be just me

-it may reduce the careers gameplay since everyone could choose their own weaps

imo it would have more pros in the end and i would rather like to have it this way than changing career setups everytime someone doesnt like the current setup

in the end it isnt a balancing issue anymore but a skill, you choose and use your weapons and how sucessful you do is your problem

[Silencer131]

Let's just hope a developer reads this.

[Si|ent]

Most experienced players can kill any class with any other class. (unless that other player is much much mnore skilled than them of course). The whole point of the career structure is to allow players to choose a career (class) that suits thier style of play. Slow rumbling heavily armed mexicans (you cannot mive and shoot with any mex weapon). One shot stopping power of the robbers. Regainable armour to help the police withstand the usually better armed opponents (just like in reality). A very nice diversity of weapons for the vcc along with the random spawns making them hard to pin down. And finally the slow healing sailors who only ever need to use helath pickups in emergencies.

Search these forums. At one time or another every single career has had someone say 'they are too powerful' This is great as it proves the balance is working perfectly. Career choice is a personal thing ( i am a sailor 99% of the time for instance) and the fact some rave over one while others lambast it proves how many individual playing styles we are catering for succesfully.

think CounterStrike (sorry to swear) mp5, colt, ak47, commando, shotgun, Deagle, AWP.. which is best?

Not that simple there are as many opinions as there are players as any old cs discussion board will prove

[Ransom]

Well bump, I CAN kill with any class, but if the other is a pro then it means the weapons are REALLY gonna make a difference.

About the sailor, thats one thing that really pisses me off. Some people will run and run and run and run and run and RUN to the ends of the earth until their health gets back, then they turn around and shoot again. Its really annoying. And dont say "Well catch them" because 90% of the time when you shoot at them, you are shooting blanks. I think a rule should be put on them, like your health does not regain after you've run for 10 seconds or so in a row, and then it wouldn't activate for another 20 seconds or something.

A rule like this would really slow the growing of the VCTT - Vice City Track Team

[Si|ent]

Well bump, I CAN kill with any class, but if the other is a pro then it means the weapons are REALLY gonna make a difference.

So choose the career with the weapons you think are 'best'...

As for running away: Some people like to play that way. If it annoys you look for someone else to fight with. You dont HAVE to finish off everyone you see just because you hit them once you know.

[Ransom]

Well thats not the issue, the issue is, "Are they unbalanced" and I think thats a yes.

As for the runners, its not the average everyday runners that get me, its the sailors that run while gaining health back that upset me. Its rediculous how far they'll run. I suppose what you are saying is true, but I mean is that really the point of MTA? To run away as long as possible?

Edited April 15, 2004 by Guest

[happyrock]

ever class does that take out unlimted run "hint hint"

[Guest]

Weapon/Character Selection = 100% Fine.

[Prokopis]

[...]Regainable armour to help the police withstand the usually better armed opponents (just like in reality)[...]

Excuse me? In case you forgot, a cop's only chance to regain his armour level, is to go back to WBPD, or be lucky enough to find a deserted VCPD van somewhere and not have entered it before during that lifetime... In other words, good luck.

Personally, I never considered the issue of roles and classes something to take seriously since there's no solid gameplay built around it yet. I always pick VCP and never kill my own, but that's where my courtesy ends for anyone and everyone. Besides, one can start with any character and end with a completely different arsenal within a few minutes if they know what they want and where to look for it, so assuming they're alive for more than a few mins after spawing, I always approach ppl expecting the worst.

If there's an issue of unfairness in the fighting world of VC (both SP and MTA) - and I think there is - that IMO lies in the nature of the weaps themselves; the stubby per se. Coming from a mostly RTS gaming past, I immediately noticed how the stubby (and thus the robber) was heavily overused because it simply is an overpowered weapon compared to everything else in ranges between close and mid-far distance; it was really easy to spot it when you've come to expect and look for unbalances in games. I just didn't expect anything THAT obvious. Its power per blast is amazing and since it can leave ppl vulnerale to another hit by knocking them down and there's the jumping glitch to exploit as well, there's really no substitute for it in a fight. It simply shouldn't be that good IMO. You'd either have to make the pellets less effective than the chromey's, or reduce the projectiles to 4, or make its range even shorter or something else to that aim cause as it is the tradeoff concept is simply not there; a single shot at the back can kill a cop @ full armour. The way it is now, stubbies are a no-brainer; dozens of gang members (and others) using it almost constantly attest to that.

Anyway, that's my rant and I'm sticking to it.

Sorry for the long post. Again.