#ImVision# Posted October 11, 2003 Posted October 11, 2003 Hey, with mta vc 0.3, i think it would be a good idea if you could choose to enable the CRC check (the thing that checks 4 modified handling and etc) when you start the server. thatway, if u are on a lan with ur mates, u can still play with modded handling. or alternativley, i am currently writing a GTA file backer uperer in VB which backs up ur Vital files, then u can make it automatically place the original or modded ones in ur VC dir and start VC. it has presets for MTA and a full backup and takes less than 2 secs for jutst MTA files This way u can have modded cars in SP, then click one button, and ur game works perfect in MTA (all cars are restored) Let me know wat u think! (the backer uperer will be on my site soon)
Guest Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 to effectively combat cheaters, you need to check for the existance of applications modifying the gta3vc process's memory, checking for modded files is not enough
Evil Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 yeah this has been posted before i think CRC should be an option on private servers. there is no real way around stopping cheaters sure you can stop trainer users but wont work on someone who knows this stuff by heart and there is many users on this board who do but you wont see them as much messing around with clients unless they dont have a way of using the mods/files they want to use online
Cerbera Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 This has already been posted you evil little turd. Now if only the moderators here did anything.
MTA Team Blokker_1999 Posted October 12, 2003 MTA Team Posted October 12, 2003 we are improving stuff as we go. We can not allow mods as long as we can not check what mods are installed and that everyone has the same mods installed
[->>CURLY<<-] Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 what about we have a vote to c what mods to put in and u put it in when we install mta
SM xenex Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 Thats what i have always been thinking knowing most people dont like the default cars in GTA VC ,ive been thinking all along that , it should be done by voting, lets say we (the players) make cars or go to mod sites and get the mods we like, and then it should be voted on and then put up for download , and ye some people might not get the car they were voting on, but atleast i thiunk all or any off the cars on mod sites are better then the defualt ones(except a small few). MTA team dont take me wrong ,I understand what you guys wnat to do, make the game stable before adding things but i think this should be something that shouild be tought about.
Cerbera Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 Just have the CRC checks as an option, that solves your problems xenex. IT'S ALSO WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ALL ABOUT.
SM xenex Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 Well i dont want that as an option, i dont even want it taken off, and i was replying to curly, as most people will understand, i think what me and curly said is the best solution, what you want is totaly imposible, cause for every player that has a diff car mod it will HAVE to be made available for the thousands off player available each time someone has a new car mod, and when 2 people have the same car? what then ? the first(old) must change his and again etcetc , Its seems like most people dont uderstand why this cant be done the way they want.
#ImVision# Posted October 13, 2003 Author Posted October 13, 2003 this may sound odd, but when i played MTA 0.1 we used to mod bikes on our lan and get them going about 1000 kmh with weights of 100 tons, and it didnt crash, so what would be wrong with having crc check as an option on lans?
Cerbera Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 So... Many... Topics... About... This... So... Much... Trash... From... You... Xenex, people don't need to run the same mods. I've played people on 0.1 servers who were using totally different models with collision files - even had map mods - and it ran fine, just looked weird. The main use for just allowing UNREGULATED mods as an option is for PRIVATE servers to allow people to mess around, test and develop any modification project. Public servers will tend to have the anti-cheat stuff turned on. And if they don't, then they accept the possible consequences of cheaters ruining the game they are hosting. Encouraging servers to add whether they have or havn't to thier "motd.txt" and even the server name would mean no players would enter a moddifiers game if didn't want to. Private groups (especially amongst the modifications community) will benefit enormously from an option to allow totally unregulated modifications. There are many multi-member map projects who could all install the latest development version of thier mod and test it (using an appropriate SCM file that they would make) in MTAVC. Majera, London Vice, FunWorld, Dexxland, St. Andrea are on GTAForums alone, so there is a very real demand for this. And it isn't just team map modding which would benefit, of course. Car modelers could test thier cars and handling with a select group to gain valuble real-time feedback, making the development process of thier car both faster AND more thorough. Texturers could show people around their modifications, people could apply to join teams by sending that team leader thier work and showing them around it in MTAVC! The benefits are endless and the downsides are simply nil to having the file checks as a server option.
#ImVision# Posted October 14, 2003 Author Posted October 14, 2003 thankyou Cerbera, that is exactl;y what i was trying to say
True Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Just have the CRC checks as an option, that solves your problems xenex. IT'S ALSO WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ALL ABOUT. If the option is sent only on connect, expect simple cheating - just change the value on connect, even if it needs to be computed. If it is sent multiple times, same thing. There'd hopefully be some trickery to client setup and status through server options. or alternativley, i am currently writing a GTA file backer uperer in VB which backs up ur Vital files, then u can make it automatically place the original or modded ones in ur VC dir and start VC. it has presets for MTA and a full backup and takes less than 2 secs for jutst MTA files Write a batch file, much easier.
Guest Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 I myself think that MTA a is extremely boring without the ability to modify even the slighest piece of information.... as a modder and this being a MOD itself i feel that the reality is that your arrogance to police the activities of others with something they purchased with built in cheats is thouroughly disgusting and bordering on facism. I personally enjoy this game because of the interectivity wiht the environment not allowing those of us who modify that environment is stifling an entire community of creative efforts that could make MTA grow much larger than it is ... damn might as well burn books.... Just look at the mod communnity of tribes 2 people build and run personal mod servers all the time and if every tribes session was the same thing all the tim i would quit supporting it also.... so i guess it comes down to the question who wants it to be moddable and who doesn't ...use some diplomacy here have users vote on it.... ... crc is one thing checking for modified files is a whole different ball game ps....don't listen to me the crazy open source heretic from the wilds of debian but ithink the code would get much better if it was opend up reading and modification....
Cerbera Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Sleeper, I thought I summed it up pretty effectivly in my essay on the previous page but you've highlighted a criticism of the MTA team which is shared (perhaps unfairly) by the greater majority of moddifiers. As part of a modifications community themselves, one would hope that the MTA team would be more accomodating to others who alter and create this game. CRC as an option is, as I proposed earlier, the solution to a lot of these problems. By not even running a check on the SCM it would allow ANY team to test thier projects together. The primary benefits of this I've already mentioned but additionally the fact that MTA:VC, if it was made more accessible to moddifiers, would improve the scene enormously. After all, it's only because there has been a Grand Theft Auto modifications community since 1997 that all these great sequels have been made.
me Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 One would ALSO hope that the MTA team would try and create the most bug-free release as possible, and as quickly as possible, instead of spending time creating features that only a minority would use and may simply create additional bugs. Remember: This is a BETA. Not a features release... The idea is to get basic gameplay down before trying anything else. And to those critisicing the MTA team for the CRC checks: The team doesn't really owe you anything... Without them, there probably wouldn't even BE a multiplayer mod to modify Anyone from the dev team who wants to edit/delete my post, go ahead, I just had to get that off my chest
#ImVision# Posted October 15, 2003 Author Posted October 15, 2003 write a batch file... dammit, i honestly didn't think of that!!
#ImVision# Posted October 15, 2003 Author Posted October 15, 2003 i wasn't trying to critisise the MTA team's work, far from it. I appreciate the work they have done imensly, without them, we would have no MTA. i was merly trying to see if others on this forum were in agreement with my idea which could possibly be put in place in a future version of mta. sorry if i sounded ungratefull.
me Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Ya, sorry... I was a little harsh in my post... Just re-read it and pretend that I'm saying it in a loving kind of way
Guest Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 the word suggestions implies that these are just that suggestions no one is directly attacking the team these are just our way of expressing distaste with an un-modifiable mod... that's all nothing else... besides my opinion is forced on no one... but the moderators and admins of this server definitely can force theirs by deleting or lockin whatever they want to not deal with... my topic had nothing to do with crc checks i was specifically talking about trying to give your coders some help in the respect of mission script i mean if the whole thing was a little more open then it might get some serious feedback from other skilled modders and actually make it out of beta stage.... the point is mute in the minds of children anyway...
NaMaNaX Posted November 2, 2003 Posted November 2, 2003 What they need to do is use some kind of exe compression tool to compress and obfuscate the data in the exe. This would prevent editing of the client.exe, making it much harder to reverse engineer or hex edit. For compressing the client.exe something like WWPack32 or a similar program. With this kind of program compression the data still is hard to manipulate in memory. Doing a memory dump on a compressed file to make it modable still is unreliable. These simple tricks would thwart a lot of cheats.
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