Desperate Question Regarding MTA:SA

[MistaC]

This may be a really dumb question, but after playing San Andreas for PC, I'm dying to know...will San Andreas be released at the same time blue is released? or will it be released before that time? This question has me speculating that it will be released when blue is released, but I am always wrong so I would like to know.

Thanks!

-Mista C

[Si|ent]

Blue is just the internal codename for the new platform, the 'guts' of mta if you like. Future MTA:VCs and MTA:SAs will both be built upon it. So your question is a little like asking if the new chevrolet chassis will be released at the same time as the new chevrolet

[Landorin]

Hi,

But how can MTA work with San Andreas?

As far as I know some developer gave you the sourcecode for the few bits of network code that was built into GTA 3. Isn't that MP code lacking in San Andreas (since I doubt they even started to work on MP this time and just left it out right from the beginning)?

I don't want to know the details since you want to keep these secret, just curious how that works with a singleplayer-only game?

[VCES>baby-g]

Rockstar never made any multiplayer, or began to make any multiplayer for any of the gta games, it's all been done by the mta team, they worked it out themselves

[Black Dragon]

a developer didnt "give" them the little piece of code, it was found and known about for a quite a long time before mta started. they used the code in the most earlier versions of gta3, and left alone that code when they found a better way, not using any of the left gta3 code.

i advise you to read the mta history page and the mta blue page.

[Si|ent]

The code you refer to in gta3 was nothign usable anyway, simply a couple of menus and graphics left in indicating multiplayer was planned at one stage in GTA3's development. As the previous posters said, The whole point of MTA is to get a single player game to work as a multiplayer one.

[Gtatari]

Yeah I always used to wonder about that, since on the old school MTA website (think: waiting for mta 0.3) you said that MTA used that left over code.

OT: MistaC: we need to try to implement Operation Autohidzation again!

)>-GTAtari-<(

[s0beit]

Rockstar never made any multiplayer, or began to make any multiplayer for any of the gta games, it's all been done by the mta team, they worked it out themselves

incorrect, they did acually start but then never finished

(even gtasa has a winsock )

[eAi]

gtasa does have winsock, but not for multiplayer.

[Landorin]

Wow, that's amazing!

I mean, it is somehow impossible for me to imagine how people can program a MP mod for a single player game.

From my understanding the game would at least need to offer some kind of interface in form of command line parameters or anything that allows an external program to send info to the game (player locations during MP play etc). I can't imagine how that is possible (I doubt the developers left any interface/incoming ways for GTA open?) but in any case, great work!

Maybe, if that isn't a problem, you could tell us how this stuff basically works? I know there are mods for other games that use command lines to send information into the game but that's about all I can imagine how to send data into a single player game.

In any case I'll look up that history page (thanks for putting that up, that's just great to read!), it's always very interesting to me how people manage to get mods working. I guess if I had more clue about that it wouldn't be that interesting lol

[robbiemcm]

Yeah, can someone actually tell me how many other games people have been converted to work online? I think that'd be quite interesting. And a 3D game as large as the GTA series, do you think that's been done before?

[eAi]

As far as we know, MTA was the first mod to add online play to a single player game. There have been others who have copied with GTA and with other games, with varying degrees of success.

[s0beit]

gtasa does have winsock, but not for multiplayer.

well i have not played it, wonder what for

[Si|ent]

Probably connected with Rockstars beta testing setup.

[=TmM= DuffBeer]

Rockstar never made any multiplayer, or began to make any multiplayer for any of the gta games, it's all been done by the mta team, they worked it out themselves

What about GTA1 and maybe 2?

[JacoB]

I mean, it is somehow impossible for me to imagine how people can program a MP mod for a single player game.

Think of it this way..

In single player there are pedestrians everywhere. In modding terms, these are also known as 'actors'. MTA can control what these actors do by game hacking. The same thing can be said for vehicles.

So you're a client connected to a server. You are sending your position, animation, weapon, vehicle, velocity, and other useful information many times per second. Once the other clients get this information, they 'force' an actor to that position, force him to that animation, force him in that car, etc.

A multiplayer mod merely adds the illusion of multiplayer by moving around actors, who are actually other players sending their information to the server.

I could be a lot more technical about it all, but thats just a user-friendly explanation.

[Landorin]

Hi JacoB,

Thanks for the reply, that gives me a rough idea now.

However, you should have gotten more technical.

The thing is, doesn't a game require some kind of input interface so that it can work with data such as player positions?

I'm not sure if I was able to explain that so let me give you an example:

in a single player game you move a car around, such as in GTA, that just works fine since it was programmed that way. But wouldn't the developers had to leave some kind of input possibility open so a client can communicate with the game itself?

I mean, on an MP game all data is sent through ports and the game has some TCP/IP support included so it knows how to handle incoming and outgoing data (player positions etc). But since I doubt a single player game has TCP/IP support programmed, how can you tell the game what this data (player position) is and how it should handle it? And how does the game sends out data that is used by the other players around the world?

Do you see my point?

Today I also got another question to my mind... if a pure single player game can be modded for MP, wouldn't that mean that ANY single player game could be modded for MP?

I remember there was a game named X-COM and although it was purely single player someone turned parts of the game into an MP mod but how can that work if they )the devs of the official game) don't code some I/O interface for sending and receiving MP data?

[orappa]

Here's how it works:

You move your player and the MTA client (interfaced with the game) realises this. The client then sends this data to the server, which sends it to corresponding clients. Upon receiving it, these clients force the pedestrians on your screen (since that's what other players essentially are) to that particular position.

All data is handled by the MTA client running in the background, not GTA.

[Si|ent]

I think he's asking HOW the client knows this though jonchappel.

And yes. Pretty much any single player game could be made multiplayer. Wether it would be advisable or fun is another matter.

Edit: X-com was an awesome series of games. Apocolypse was my favourite

[Landorin]

Yes, MrBump, that's what I want to know, I was just unable to express it in English probably.

So how does the game knows this (not too technical if possible)?

I have a theory now: you hack the game (as it was written before) somehow and simply ADD a way to the game itself kinda (that would change the game's files wouldn't it?) so it knows how to handle incoming and outgoing MP data coming/going to the mta client and makes it able to move around the player characters?

[Guest]

I'm not sure exactly but i think in my view this is how it works.

GTA always stores the coordinates, player animations ect. Into global variables in order for all sorts of things to be done.

In memory hacking that variable would be a hex value for example 0x002391 which MTA can access and read/write data to. If they can do that they can create actors with the memory address and in maybe 0.1 second instances continously read/write memory addresses for coordinates, current animation, weapon ect. And they would use the memory address for having things on the radar and convert the 3d coordinates to the 2d coordinates to display it on the radar.

[Landorin]

Ohhhh I see! Now I think I understood it.

That would also explain why you could theoretically turn any single player game into an MP game! Brilliant (and very clever)! Thanks a lot for that anwer, I wondered for so long how people do that without having an interface such as tcp/ip support built into the game, finally I know (and can sleep well again).

But that probably also explains why people are able to create hacks and cheat in game, that's really tricky to prevent the way it sounds!

Is it hard to hack memory adresses that way? I mean, is there a way to learn it (maybe some free tutorial or so on the net)? Would be fun to help out the MTA team or turn some older game into an MP mod. Yeah I know that would be a lot of hard work, I don't even think I may try that, just wondering how hard this actually is?

[eAi]

Is it hard to hack memory adresses that way? I mean, is there a way to learn it (maybe some free tutorial or so on the net)? Would be fun to help out the MTA team or turn some older game into an MP mod. Yeah I know that would be a lot of hard work, I don't even think I may try that, just wondering how hard this actually is?

Its fairly hard to "hack memory addresses". It used to be somthing I did a lot, now with blue, we don't need to do that at all really, so I haven't been near a memory searcher for over a year... It can be fun to do, but frustrating at times. Have a play around.

[Landorin]

Thanks, that all was very exciting.

Now if I also knew how emulators work I could sleep well but that's getting me off topic totally. It's just very interesting HOW people find a workaround on creating mods like these when there is no direct way.

Can you also say why memory hacking/searching isn't needed anymore with "Blue"? Unless that has to remain secret of course. Are you using a different way to send MP data now or is it just that you don't have to search anymore because you know all the adresses now (you don't mention these aloud while sleeping do you)?

[orappa]

They're using a different method that bypasses the SCM (GTA's mission scripting system) but they haven't really given any further details. It might be something they want to keep secret. As far as I know, all other competing mods use the SCM.