War!

[lil Toady]

Russia______________________________Georgia

__________

_______________________

___________________________

______________________________

_________________________

_____________________________ _____________ (Bush)

__________________________ _______ (Saakashvili)

______________________________

________________________ _____________ (some pals, they think they know something)

___________________________ ______________

___________________UNO_____________________________________CNN

___________ ________________________

Now you know stuff.

[Ace_Gambit]

Total war and destruction! Europe is next! The Red Army is coming!

* starts digging trenches

[robhol]

AAH, evil Russians are gonna get us all!!

/me makes nuclear-proof bunker in the garden.

[zerb]

Forza Rusija!

[lil Toady]

Lets see how it was, and how Anti-Russian propaganda is covering up things. In this case im talking about the CNN channel as that's the only western one i've been watching (Well, and BBC). My quick review.

Before the war

USA wants Georgia in NATO as it's so close to the Russian border, and huh, the less allies Russia has, the better, BUT Georgia can not join NATO untill it solves it's territory problems. In this case Abkhasia and South Ossetia were self-claimed independant republics, though Georgia did not accept it so there has always been this conflict. Russia was present in both Abkhasia and South Ossetia on a peace keepers mission (As we all know, peace keepers are there to prevent any weapon conflicts between the two sides) by an official document approved by the United Nations. For a few years Georgia managed to increase the financial input into the army 30 times. USA, Ukraine, Israil and other NATO nations have been selling or even giving out for free a huge ammount of Tanks, artilery systems, planes. For a few month before the war Georgia recieved thousands tonns of ammunition. Russia obviously saw what that was leading to and a few times tried to get Georgia to sign a document about cease-fire, which eventually Georgia did not sign. Exactly a week before the war Georgia has finished a united training with US army, the training was called 'Immediate Response'. So in few words, Georgia was preparing for a war, Russia tried to prevent it but could not.

The war

7 august 2008, Around 23:30 (Moscow time) Georgia attacks South Ossetia with heavy artillery. "Grad" systems are being used, just so you know, with "Grad" artillery systems you can not do an aimed fire, this is a weapon of mass destruction with a huge cover range, and this was aimed at a night city of Tskhinvali. US Media keeps silent not saying a word about this. Few hours later Georgian tanks move close to Tskhinvali and open a fire too, Russian peace kee[ers are being attacked. Russia tells Georgia to stop the fire and calls an urgent United Nations summit in New York, which decided nothing. In the morning we recieve news about estimated 1200 civil citizens killed. Russian peace keepers lose 12 soldiers, 130 injured. South Ossetian officials report about 12 small towns completely burned, Georgian artillery has destroyed the only Tskhinvali hospital, most of the city lies in ruins. US Media still says nothing about the war. UN summit can not decide anything, Georgia not responding to the Russian sound to stop the fire, so Russia just had nothing else to do than move it's army into South Ossetia to save the citizens, to save the peace keepers, and prevent the shooting like Russia should do by the document i told you about above. And what a surprise! US Media wakes up! We see reports like "Russia is invading georgia!", "Stop Russia, the agressor", but still not a word about those 1200 killed by that time. CNN starts showing the Georgian president, Saakashvili, who says stuff like "Huge Russia is invading our small democratic country, we call NATO for help, Russia should stop the fire.", he calls Russia an agressor. All CNN outputs is what Georgia reports, nothing from Russia or South Ossetia officials. But in that time, Ossetians tell awful things about how a Georgian tank ran over an old woman with two children, about how Georgian soldiers pushed around 20 girls into a wooden house, locked them and burned alive, about how Georgians knive a 1.5 years child. Not a sound about that in US Media. We only hear about how bad Russia is invading Georgia. Saakashvili decides to switch off all the Russian Media in Georgia, also locked all the websites in .ru area, maybe so Georgians don't see what's really happening? On holidays, they finally show Georgian artilery bombing Tskhinvali, but wait, they don't say it's Georgian, CNN says that is Russian artillery bombing Georgian city, thought they can not show the city itself. We also recieve reports about how Russian planes keep bombing the citizens what is also a complete BS, Russian bombers were only bombing military objects, it can be proved by the further Georgian media reports about 37 citizens and over 150 soldiers killed during the Russian air force raid, though obviously it could not get without civil deaths, it's a war. Later Georgian media pushes a few photo's to show how one of the Georgian city was 'ruined', though they show less than 10 pictures with 2 different locations, nothing destroyed, only a roof on a house burning, but what's fun is that well, they show dead people but on different photo's it's always the same guy or a woman in different poses! wtf?! By that time we already count over 30000 Ossetians fled to Russian Federation, why Russia? I thought the whole world thinks it's Georgian territory, so obviously US Media says nothing about that, but US media finally reports about 2000 killed, though it says that in the same sentace with word 'Russia'. No, they do not straigtly say that's Russians who killed them but obviously an average reader would think so. They still keep showing countless Saakashvili talks about how bad Russia is, they show the war only from the Georgian side. Today we can see videos of how Russia has ruined a lot of civil houses in Georgia, though it's ridiculisious, they show Ossetian houses destroyed by Georgia again!

Ok, i'm bored of typing, maybe i forgot a lot of what i could have written here so ill probably add whatever i remember later. I suppose you still think that's Russia being an Agressor, but hasn't Georgia pulled a genocide on Ossetia killing 2000 citizens in such a horrible manner? You may ask questions, I sure can answer any bringing sources.

[Simbad de Zeeman]

start superweapons

Edit after i read the whole post: Wow...interesting

[paul527]

War of the smiley faces...

Edited August 13, 2008 by Guest

[lil Toady]

Few more things why this war is good for Bush's goverment in my opinion. Right now since US only shows Russia being an agressor people might support McCain who wants Russia out of G8 and all the other anti-russian stuff. In other words Bush makes people think McCain is their only hope and makes republicians stay in the US goverment. Also behind all that mess right now US, UK and French fleets are moving closer to Iran, looks like one more war is comming. Why is it ok for US to start shooting innoncent people, why was it ok to separate Kosovo from Serbia and bomb Belgrade, yet it's so bad for Russia to prevent Genocide in South Ossetia.

I myself support Obama, with this guy the US-Russia conflicts would stop imo as he will stop that rocket shield thing developing in easter europe, he wont get the army into Iran and he will get the Army out of Iraq. He sounds like a loyal to other nations person.

[paul527]

You can't vote anyways lil Toady

[haybail]

Poor Russia, if it is like that. Originally they make Russia sound like the enemy here too. But now they say Russia has agreed to hold off to its original positions because of the French president but only for a day because Georgia attacked them again? 2000 dead, 130,000 displaced?

I didn't even hear about it for a while too, because of the Olympics I first heard it on steampowered forums, thought it was a joke. Someone said like 'Georgia attacked Russia'. Cause I didn't hear anything I was like yea right

[paul527]

Whatever, we all know Russia just wants Georgia's oil lines, and Georgia is trying to defend them. Of course Georgia is going (to at least try) to attack Russia for pulling that crap. Anyways, if Russia was performing "self defense" they wouldn't be attacking this little country over and over, and increasing presence like they are. It's funny how Russia makes itself seem "hurt" by Georgia's attacks, even though the deaths were serious, simultaneously it doesn't mean Russia's overall fate is at the hands of Georgia. I like all the propaganda though.

I like Russians, but please don't feed me anymore one sided garbage. If I want that, I'll just read the Georgian, Russian, and American news...

[robhol]

When picking sides in stuff like this it's hard to know which "side" to believe... everybody claims you can trust them and nobody else... and you don't know if it's true. So, how can you trust someone when you're not sure you can trust them when they tell you that you can trust them?

Oh, and that text was pretty hard to read, (albeit interesting) you could try to split up the text a bit with paragraphs or something.

[lil Toady]

Whatever, we all know Russia just wants Georgia's oil lines, and Georgia is trying to defend them. Of course Georgia is going (to at least try) to attack Russia for pulling that crap. Anyways, if Russia was performing "self defense" they wouldn't be attacking this little country over and over, and increasing presence like they are. It's funny how Russia makes itself seem "hurt" by Georgia's attacks, even though the deaths were serious, simultaneously it doesn't mean Russia's overall fate is at the hands of Georgia. I like all the propaganda though.

I like Russians, but please don't feed me anymore one sided garbage. If I want that, I'll just read the Georgian, Russian, and American news...

Do you realise that Russians have already left Georgia and none of the oil/gas lines are damaged? Thinking it was because of that oil is stupid, why did Russia try to get Georgia sign a cease-fire document before the war then?

[zerb]

It’s a game plan that has backfired against Saakashvili’s little tricks which have only cost the lives of thousands, though his small wounds are gently being rubbed by the western media in an attempt to hide his own guilt.

Are those Georgian separatists really that thick to have not known what was coming?

[paul527]

Take the Georgia vs Russia Quiz! (answers provided) :

Q:

Do you realise that...none of the oil/gas lines are damaged?

A: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2534767/Georgia-Russia-targets-key-oil-pipeline-with-over-50-missiles.html

======================================================

Q:

Are those Georgian separatists really that thick to have not known what was coming?

A:

For a few years Georgia managed to increase the financial input into the army 30 times. USA, Ukraine, Israil and other NATO nations have been selling or even giving out for free a huge ammount of Tanks, artilery systems, planes. For a few month before the war Georgia recieved thousands tonns of ammunition.

======================================================

Q:

Do you realise that Russians have already left Georgia...?

A: Select these links, from top to bottom, and read them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080812/ap_ ... gia_russia - "Russia calls halt to 5-day invasion of Georgia"

Tuesday Aug 12, 7:20 PM ET

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... es&s_name= - "Russia defies ceasefire, tanks enter Georgian city"

Wednesday Aug 13, 2008 8:39 PM ET

[lil Toady]

http://www.mywire.com/pubs/AFP/2008/08/ ... 18?&pbl=15 Not a word about the pipeline being destroyed.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe ... t_georgia/

When Georgia officials saw tanks near Tbilisi they said they were Russian too, only later Georgian media saw that were Georgian tanks.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ Epic, Fox News does not let those Ossetians tell the truth.

[paul527]

http://www.mywire.com/pubs/AFP/2008/08/12/7214818?&pbl=15 Not a word about the pipeline being destroyed.

This is describing a company decision, not damage.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe ... t_georgia/

When Georgia officials saw tanks near Tbilisi they said they were Russian too, only later Georgian media saw that were Georgian tanks.

Finally a day later huh?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ Epic, Fox News does not let those Ossetians tell the truth.

I already told you that the American, Russian, and Georgian news can all be biased.

Oh and thank you for not editing my posts anymore You can't have an argument if there is no opposing ideas...

[lil Toady]

i edited the post where you said some bs, not where you talk about the war itself and especially bringing the sources. I'm not saying everything said in my sources is always truth also though in this case imo it's obvious your gov is pushing a media war against russia and has gone too far.

Wonder why you edited your very first post, was a good one.

[paul527]

i edited the post where you said some bs,

I can have my opinion about Obama...

in this case imo it's obvious your gov is pushing a media war against russia and has gone too far.

I agree with that. They are so one sided it's not funny, I want to hear what is going on with BOTH countries.

Wonder why you edited your very first post, was a good one.

It seemed like the thread needed some opposition, everyone was like "OOO REALLY???"

In reality it looks like Georgia made their initial attack and Russia overreacted to it. This brings up speculations of Russia's motivation to stay as long as they did, since it didn't seem like "self defense" anymore. By the time Russia said "The aggressor has been punished" it seemed like overkill. Also people were wondering why when Russia told their armies to leave, it seemed like there was unnecessary delay, I mean, people could understand if they were on the other side of the globe but they are neighbors. The delay wasn't that bad, but the fact that it was noticeable made some people upset.

Sorry it took so long to respond, I have been busy with work, and I had time to read it but that's it.

[lil Toady]

Russian army has left georgia. But today i heared that georgia is pushing their army to South Ossetian border again, and even captured some small village. Also few NATO ships arrived to georgia - help or weapons?

[Mr.Hankey]

um toady how could you already say on the 14th that the russian army has left?! i read in the newspaper that they just left the last weekend 22nd or 23rd oO (and no it wasnt one of these 76p-huge-bold-headline-on-red-background-newspaper)

oh and i thought this might fit the topic

[lil Toady]

You read what i said wrong. Russian army is not in georgia and now they are trying to capture South Ossetia again. Weren't that war enough for them?

[Black Dragon]

War! Unf!

Good God, y'all.

What is it good for?

Absolutely nothing!

Say it again

War! Unf!

Lord, what is it good for?

Absolutely nothing!

Listen to me

[erorr404]

War! Unf!

Good God, y'all.

What is it good for?

Absolutely nothing!

Say it again

War! Unf!

Lord, what is it good for?

Absolutely nothing!

Listen to me

I was just thinking of this song when I clicked on this thread, lol.

[paul527]

oh and i thought this might fit the topic

omfg that was good