suggestions on future map editor for dm

[-]alw[-deftones]

**Sorry if this is posting in the wrong section of forum.**

Hey, guys this is -]alw[-deftones, we got a post on our forums by ransom and im returning the favor.

Im pretty well versed in using unreal editor. also im an admin for a mapping community that makes maps for americas army. (not totaly allowed yet lol).

Here are a few thoughts that would help give mappers and easier time to map and give more funcitonality. mind you, i dont know what your limits are so if you feel like getting in touch im always available on alw's forum via pm or on vent if you can catch me.

Ortographic views.

meaning like top, side, front and perspective. i dont know if its possible or if it woul be too laggy to make but having a system where there is an actual grid or something would make lineing things up and rotations so much easier. top,side and front should be wire frames. the grid unit change like 1 box per unit or per 5 units should be adjustable.

Rotations and Angles.

ive noticed that if i want to turn a road upside down i have to angle the Z rotation to something like 1.35237892384724 which is horrid. why not 180 Degrees etc. it would leave room to be super specific like i want this road at an angle of 30.66 degrees.

Selections.

being able to select more then one object at a time would prove vital. say if i create an entire jungle or something and want to copy that jungle over. or a complex set of roads or buildings. being able to either add one by one or using a marquee like in photoshop or on your windows desktop would be so much easier.

Viewing.

the draw distance in the map editor compared to max dd in game is not the same. it clips at much shorter distance. this also hinders checkpoint placement on race mode.

Staticmesh viewer.

being able to rotate, and move the camera angle while previewing meshes should be done manualy. those spinning forever mesh previews make my head spin and i sometimes cant see the entire object.

Time change in editor.

some objects react different to time, there are tons of objects like neon lights and building windows that cant be seen in the map editor unless you use an "outside" tool to change the game time. this way you can see them when you in edit more, mesh selection mode or test mode.

Namings.

the editor should name the objects they place after thier actual names. like flag (1), then if you place more it does flag (2), flag (3). etc. makes things assloads easier.

Being able to select.

some objects are not selectable again after you deselect. like fences. this is a pain in the ass and makes me have to hunt through my object list to find it again. so if there is a way to make sure for certain that those objects are selectable an reselectable no matter what would be very very pro.

-----------------------------------------

Im sure DM will have tons of new game modes and things that we can do, so having and overall well thought out layout will help make this editor really take solid shape. My suggestion would be to study unreal editor and draw up a layout for it on paper or in photoshop first and make a barebone version of it then give it full functionality.

i wish i could help you out with these but i just know unreal editor, 3d studio max, and photshop, also a bit of html, css and embedding javascript all for web design.

checkout my website at http://www.designbydrexler.com

i can build low poly cars like todays modern cars, ie. bmw's and h2's lol would be sweet to see those implemented.

anyways, thanks for the hardwork. mta:sa has been a blast cant wait to see the future.

-]alw[-deftones

[Hedning]

i can build low poly cars like todays modern cars, ie. bmw's and h2's lol would be sweet to see those implemented.

Just use the IMG tool and implent them , but only you can see it.

You can't "ad" cars to the game only replace.

[rickets007]

I agree with these suggestions. In fact I was going to suggest adding orthographic views. At minimum there should be an option to snap objects to integer coordinates. I just started mapping a few days ago and I already find that I spend more time mapping in notepad than the actually editor.

[rickets007]

Also, about the rotation angles. I was confused too until I realized that for some reason they were in units of radians instead of degrees. You need to multiply by 0.0174532925. That is pi/180. Therefore 30.66 degrees is 30.66*0.0174532925=0.5351179 I can not fathom why radians would be used.

[SDK]

That are some good suggestions

I like the names, multiple selection and the objects you can't select

I think mta could automatically give the original name of the object when you place it on you're map

(the one you can see on top when you're scrolling for a good object)

cause the MTA team itself can't give every object a (good) name

Multiple selection could be realizable, i think.

[-]alw[-deftones]

yeah it can be a pain, especially when ou build some complex roadwork and then have to do it all again from scratch.

[darkdreamingdan]

These are obviously some decent well thought out suggestions, so im going to try and comment as much as possible on them

Ortographic views.

meaning like top, side, front and perspective. i dont know if its possible or if it woul be too laggy to make but having a system where there is an actual grid or something would make lineing things up and rotations so much easier. top,side and front should be wire frames. the grid unit change like 1 box per unit or per 5 units should be adjustable.

Not sure at this stage, though unlikely. Wireframe is something that IJs has looked in to but is unlikely to be implemented due to its difficulty.

Rotations and Angles.

ive noticed that if i want to turn a road upside down i have to angle the Z rotation to something like 1.35237892384724 which is horrid. why not 180 Degrees etc. it would leave room to be super specific like i want this road at an angle of 30.66 degrees.

Rotations will remain in Radians by the looks of things. I dont feel this is a major issue, it is not difficult to convert to and from radians.

Selections.

being able to select more then one object at a time would prove vital. say if i create an entire jungle or something and want to copy that jungle over. or a complex set of roads or buildings. being able to either add one by one or using a marquee like in photoshop or on your windows desktop would be so much easier.

Possible, could be added if time allows. It would require saving groups of objects as well as implementation to select multiple objects, plus manipulate them.

Viewing.

the draw distance in the map editor compared to max dd in game is not the same. it clips at much shorter distance. this also hinders checkpoint placement on race mode.

Is this the case for GTA's internal objects? You have to bear in mind objects are streamed so that the object limit can be higher.

Staticmesh viewer.

being able to rotate, and move the camera angle while previewing meshes should be done manualy. those spinning forever mesh previews make my head spin and i sometimes cant see the entire object.

Possible, but not sure how easy it is at this stage.

Time change in editor.

some objects react different to time, there are tons of objects like neon lights and building windows that cant be seen in the map editor unless you use an "outside" tool to change the game time. this way you can see them when you in edit more, mesh selection mode or test mode.

This was a mistake on behalf of the QA. Night objects have now been documented and it is likely that this issue will be resolved

Namings.

the editor should name the objects they place after thier actual names. like flag (1), then if you place more it does flag (2), flag (3). etc. makes things assloads easier.

This is a good idea, and i feel it should be implemented. Should not be very difficult either.

Being able to select.

some objects are not selectable again after you deselect. like fences. this is a pain in the ass and makes me have to hunt through my object list to find it again. so if there is a way to make sure for certain that those objects are selectable an reselectable no matter what would be very very pro.

This is difficult as selections rely on GTA's collision system to select things. If the "Namings" suggestion were implemented, do you think it would suffice?

[-]alw[-deftones]

the namings thing would be good but my most hoped for change is the rotations thing, way to hard, difficult to expect mapping noobs to know how to figure that number out either.

another note aboutthe night objects is that depending on what time of the night it is, the objects may display differently. even roads will show differently as the mesh overlays the lighting map. (i assume).

also, just a side note:

would it be possible to show stats about an object ? like while browsing throught them ?

say something like..

name : tunnel1

collision : yes

polygons : 58

-----------

this way people can know ahead of time if objects have collisions and stuff. probabably pretty hard to code i assume =P.

sry if it seems that im just being a persistant nit-picker but im just trying to give realistic expectations for what i hope will be a great game.

[-]alw[-deftones]

AND AN UNDO / REDO FUNCTION !!!!!!!!!!!!

contol Z = undo

control R = redo

[Hedning]

polygons : 58

unnessecery

contol Z = undo

Press delete

[SDK]

and what if you pressed delete, and wonna undo that?

[darkdreamingdan]

Undo is something that can be looked into. As for collisions it would most likely require someone to go through objects and label them by hand....any volunteers are welcome .

As for changing rotations units - if you feel so strongly about it, it can be changed, its just its remained like this for a long time and MTA is already deep in development. It suprises me though that you've never come across radians units before.

[-]alw[-deftones]

nope, didnt know the term radions until this thread, only radion i know is made by ati... lol

jk i know its radians.

i guess coders value the radian system but end-users prefer simplistics

less work = more fun =

the undo function would be a blessing because as sdk said, if you delete by accident.. or if you make a accidental rotation, woould just make it less of a headache to repair.

also redo because you can quickly use undo and redo back to back to make comparrisons before and after a change.

oh and i feel that the polygon count is useful so you can keep a running tally of accessory polygons on a map. like say i want to make a race, and want to limit poly counts to a certain number to help prevent graphic lag for people playing on shitty computers.

i swear its like some people are playing on a calculator

[SDK]

and the naming things?

like Talidan said, he needs a volunteer(notme, notme!!)

but you could do this in the beginning, so mta is released quicker

I think mta could automatically give the original name of the object when you place it on you're map

(the one you can see on top when you're scrolling for a good object)

cause the MTA team itself can't give every object a (good) name

and the rotation units doesn't matter to me, i only use it inside the map editor

btw:i play on my calculator bubble bobble (ti-84+)

[Mnightmare]

check your pm inbox deftones

[rickets007]

About the rotation angles. I think they should remain in radians in the map file but the MTA map editor should take degrees as an input and automatically multiply it by pi/180.

The rotation angles themselves however are leaving me pretty confused. What do they do exactally? In the code there are 3 rotational parameters for each object. I assumed that they refered to x, y and z rotations. I am now not so sure of that. The first parameter seems to controll rotation about the z axis. The second parameter, however seems to controll the 'pitch' of the object. It does not control the rotation around any specific axis. The problem with this can be demonstrated in the MTA editor. Select an object and give it a rotation of 0,0,1.57. The value 1.57 is radians for a 90 degree rotation. You will now find that the 'pitch' axis is now parallel to the z axis. Therefore changing the first rotational parameter has an identical affect to changing the second rotational parameter.

If you are really confused by all this, that makes two of us.

[-]alw[-deftones]

check your pm inbox deftones

been trying to reply to you pm but i keep getting invalid error. =(.. pm me at gamersedge.org

[Lággy]

I have a suggestion to add to the list, can you make the mouse wheel be able to change the distance from the object your holding? I kinda find it annoying when I'm mapping in the sky.

[darkdreamingdan]

how do you mean? Would it have the same affect as aiming at the object, then moving back(only across the correct axes)?

[Lággy]

how do you mean? Would it have the same affect as aiming at the object, then moving back(only across the correct axes)?

Yes. Also, could it hurt to add a slow movement button (like the shift button but slower then the normal speed)?

EDIT: Hah, thanks for telling

Edited December 23, 2006 by Guest

[SDK]

that last thing is done with

x + movement control (at 5% of the standard speed)

look in the manual

[Azu]

Radians sucks. I'm sorry. Like, when using the MAP to IPL converter, it fucks of the map in Single Player. No offense.

[epoxi]

I would really value a grid feature, but an 'align to grid' option would be even better! Also, circular grids (where obviously you choose the centre) would be prefect for mapping...for example: curving barriers around corners.

[darkdreamingdan]

Movement speeds are something that'll definately be addressed in the newer editor.

As for Laggy's idea, i think its possible to be implemented, though im not sure whether it'll be smooth movement - i.e it might "warp" the camera

[MISTO]

A useful option for the dm map editor: a message that the players get when they spawn.

Ex: Imagine a team that spawn at the big hear and an other team that spawn at the area 69.

If the players are not showed on the map, the message coud be "attak the area 69" to show where the ennemies are...