Nutz

Just to keep this thread on topic, it sounds like you agree with the points in the first post? I don't want to get in to animation glitches in the thread as it's been covered comprehensively elsewhere.

Other than the fact that everyone and their brother carries one. :-\ I guess it depends on which server you are on. It would be annoying if everyone always used it. maybe putting it in a difficult location would help. Someone pointed out that only experienced players would have it then, but I remember experienced players using it sparingly if at all. Peer pressure was a big part of that. My personal favorite "difficult" place is on the upper level of one of the stilt houses with a roof in the bay. The only way to get there in mta is with a heli, and you have to carefully land and take off from the small dock at the base. It doesn't even look like a heli would fit there because the blades go through the pylons, but it does work. Heck, even getting a heli can be a challenge these days There is still alot of disagreement on that so I'm intentionally excluding it from this thread with the hopes of getting the other points across to the devs as clearly as possible. They can go through the other threads and come to their own conclusions of what we want. There has certainly been no shortage of opinions on that

I think you are overestemate the ammount of tinkering that would be required. Personally I would prefer leaving weapon.dat alone but the following changes might put *some* other weapons on par with stubby: m60 default damage is already close enough m4 and ruger could be increased slightly from default mp5 and python could be increased slightly but not to bring them up to m60/stubby leave all other weapons alone The idea isn't to normalize every weapon to stubby but to increase very slightly some other "major" weapons to make them more competative. I don't think this will make it impossible to stay alive or fight back. I realize this is a bit more sensitive but there do seem to be alot of players that want it back. I don't recall it being a problem in 0.3. Short of taking it out completely, which I don't think there is much support for I'm trying to think of quick fixes that could easially be implemented in the client update. Option c is probably the easiest to do and safest because it involves minimal scm changes. while not a complete fix, do you think that would help? I'm sure the team would welcom more complex solutions for new major versions (if there is another major release on this core).

That was the whole point of this thread. I also note that you went on to agree with most (if not all) of what I posted. I don't want to discuss any glitches in this thread because there isn't any consensus about what to do about them as far as I can tell.

I thought it would be helpful to summarize the gameplay issues that I see a general consensus on with the hope that they might make it into the next client release. There are many other issues, particularly involving animation glitches that there is still much disagreement but I think most agree on this: - Give us alot more ammo (especially on m60) - Do not reduce damage on any weapon to balance gameplay, increase it on others if necessary - bring back the spaz - do any one of the following to spread out gameplay: a. use the shoreside vale style spawn selection where all weapons are available at a selection of spawnpoints/skins b. multiple robber spawn locations c. give another character stubby (crusader)

You mean client side constant sun right? Some servers use mtama scripts to keep constant sun on the server.

Only 300? I'd like at least 1000. That way I can set up a position and work it for a while. Unlike close range weapons, you don't always have the opportunity to pick up the dead mans weapons when sniping. Everyone got 1000 rounds+ in 0.3 because of the ammo glitch and it diddn't hurt the game at all. The spaz was fine where it was, you needed a heli but it wasn't unnecessarally annoying to get to. It's not necessary to make it harder than that. Although if you did want to make it tricky, put it in one of the full stilt houses in the bay (not on the roof).

Which makes it very hard to see what's going on, very disorienting and hard to react. Just like real tear gas! Of course you don't want that in regular deathmatch but it could be fun in controlled gameplay like gangwars. Have you tried gta3 0.5 shoreside vale? It allows you to pick a skin and corresponding spawn point. You get the same set of low end weapons at each spawn and you use the up/down arrows to select the heavy weapon of your choice. It works really well and I see many more people playing that than played gta3 on 0.4

The random location spawning can be annoying. What do you think about the idea of having the spawns be similar to GTA3 shoreside vale? You have the same wepons available at each spawn (select your heavy weapon) and select a skin that spawns at one location. Sure there might be one popular spawnpoint (like yakuza in gta3) but the option is there to spawn somewhere else with the weapons you want. Even if everyone spawns at the same place at least there will be a better mix of weapons at the spawnwar. Regarding people who don't play (as much) having excessive input into gameplay decisions, I was playin gwith MrBump once back in 0.3 and killed him *once* with the spaz. He said something to the effect of "I'll have to take that out of 0.4" and guess what.... spaz was gone from 0.4. How could that have been the first time anyone had killed him with the spaz, and how could that possibly be a good reason to take it out? I don't remember any problems with non-cheaters using the spaz. People would frequently try to assault the robber spawn with it and they never lasted longer than 2 seconds (though the resulting pickups did make robber spawn more interesting for a while afterwords). The minigun and teargas are probably the only ones that should be excluded from regular deathmatch (though they would be useful and fun in a gangwar mode). Anything else that syncs should be in. If a weapon is too strong, turn up the weak ones to match. whatever you do don't turn weapon damage down. Personally however I still prefer leaving weapon.dat in it's original (SP) state. It's not perfect but it's true gta.

Wow, for once I agree with everything DeathB said. Well put. The stubby was "too powerful" for some so they weakend the M60. WTF? M60 ruled in 0.2, mex spawn wars were common. In 0.3 it was still useful because of the 1000 round ammo glitch. Instead of randomizing the robber spawn, how about using the spawn system in Shoreside Vale? You pick your skin (and thus the spawn location) but you get to select the powerful weapon you spawn with. And stop being so stingy with the ammo. It makes gangwars a pain in the ass and the non shotgun weapons next to useless. Gameplay would be much improved if you diddn't have to worry about running out of ammo. MORE LEAD

And sync the explosions with other players

The only way the gameplay would "really really" suck is if the MTA team leaves an abusive glitch open, one which can clearly be fixed, and takes all others out. So you would be fine with having to stand still for a few seconds after each shot? That would be good gameplay? I don't think it's right to call it an 'abusive' glitch. molly and nade spamming is an abusive glitch (which is why they were banned in many gangwars). I don't recall weapon switching ever being banned in .3 gangwars, or jumping/crouching being banned in 0.4 gangwars.

Switching is very useful in SP (if you are using stubby).

The problem comes up that is it's not the game itself but MTA modifying it's memory and mission script. In the actual game you don't warp while switching and get a free second shot or desync and move+shooting while jumping and it's easier to hit people etc. Thus, I'd figure that the MTA team wants to fix these "glitches" and want to balance the game so that it is more playable and not a huge robber spawn war because there's nothing nearly as effective as the stubby. If the stubby is so overpowering (which it is), then why are they turning down the power on the other weapons? And then the took out the spaz which was a viable alternative. I say, leave the weapon.dat alone in it's entirety. If there is a problem with a weapon, either live with it and call the glitches techniques or take the weapon out completely. If the stubby were taken out completely, everyone would have to use other weapons and the game might be more fun. BUT if you leave it in but take out ALL the glitches (force the player to sit still for a few seconds after shooting), gameplay would really really suck. However, Everyone would still be "forced" to use the stubby because even in it's neutered state it would still be too deadly not to use. So using stubby would make the gameplay suck but you would effectively be forced to use it, thus the game would suck. No stubby at all would be much better than a totally dorked up stubby.

It seems that messing with the weapon.dat has caused alot of arguments over how things should be done. I'd prefer that nothing be changed in weapon.dat, including damage and the ability to switch weapons or jump and we just learn to love the game with all it's quirks and glitches. At least you could say "but that's the way the game is" instead of constantly dealing with different factions that each want a particular adjustment.

You mean that isn't running the same game mode?

they really should consider maybe ending the vice city app/process if the player disconnects from the active server, would prevent stuff like that happening (just a thought) - Bungle No, please don't. Surely there is a better way to detect this than killing the game. There are many times when a server will restart or communication is momentarally disrupted. You don't want to have to restart the game just because of a communication glitch or server restart do you? Especially right now since I have to restart the servers every hour due to the memory leak. Right now everyone autorejoins automatically with minimal disruption.

I would love to see all glitches taken out, BUT the proper way, by disabling the unnecessary animations, not by negatively affecting gameplay by forcing everyone to be a sitting duck for a second after firing a shot.

I don't see (low ping) players warping in stubby wars in 0.5. So what is the problem?

If you are running 5.2 (not even 5.2.1?) mta is the least of your concerns. Are the dependencies all gcc related? If so you may be able to install a newer version of gcc to make it work.

0.5 absolutely rocks. I see more people playing gta3 with the incredibly fun shoreside vale mode. The altimiter is great (though it needs a decimal point to the left of the right most digit). Ability to spawn with any weapon is much more fun and the weapons seem farily balanced. THANK YOU FOR PUTTING STUBBY WEAPON SWITCHING BACK IN!!!!!!!! The gameplay with stubby is MUCH faster and more exciting. Just like back in the 0.3 days. Those of us with fast computers and connections see absolutely no lag or warping. I hear many players who were used to jumping complaining, and I don't care if that's back in but whatever you do don't take out weapon switching (then everyone has to jump/croutch). The weapon sync seems to be improved. I can tell that I am seeing all shots on the automatic weapons where I might have only seen 80% before (yes with frame limiter on).

Nail on the head there, they only half got rid of glitches which means those who previously jumped are at a disadvantage. Not really fair. I agree. While I don't like jumping I have no problem with those that do. I think they never should have messed with it after 0.3 since EVERYONE enjoyied that version.

We must not be playing the same game. Everyone I talk to says the syncing and lag is MUCH MUCH better in 0.5 Everyone I talk to says they love the 0.3 style stubby with weapon switching. I'm thinking the people who don't like weapon switcching are probably the ones who were never good at it. They also seem to be the ones who prefer jumping. I could care less about jumping but anything that forces you to stand still for 5 seconds after firing will kill gameplay. MTA is much more fun with high adrenalin split second action, not when i'ts like sitting and watching a slow motion replay.

I'm glad they put weapon switch back in (even if unintentional). Stubby fights are FUN again, with high adrenalin action. I and many other players see absolutely no lag or warping when playing with other low ping players. Maybe there is a problem with 400 pingers and 56kers but you do not want to optimize the game for that. Taking out weapon switching makes the gameplay akward and slow a molasses. MTA isn't ever goin to be glitch free (at least with this core). I think alot of complaints about this are coming from the people who were jumpaholics who miss their jumping.

Yeah, kudos to the guy who figured out how to get more than one person in a hunter. That has been very important in 0.4.x since there are ONLY FOUR HELICOPTERS.