MTA and SAMP

[Malice]

I am baffled by this. Could someone please explain? How does SAMP have more players than MTA? Maybe my server browser is broken or something. MTA is clearly the better mod. Thanks in advance.

[NazcaC2]

In a better case scenario, just have a few domains set up for Domain Forwarding (no content per domain) but just redirect to mtasa.com. I've got a client with about six domains in order to attract customers who might type in different strings in search engines.

It's a marketing strategy. Companies do it all the time to get themselves known if name ambiguities arise and if they have trouble finding a customer-base.

On another note, companies also do comparisons with other companies products on their sites with charts with checkmarks. It's not hostile towards competitors.

[eAi]

MTA has never compared itself to other specific mods, and isn't about to start doing so. That's petty and will cause other mods to hate MTA even more than they do already (quite why, nobody knows!)

MTA owns a number of domains already which redirect to the site. The best way we can get more people noticing MTA is if people write about it on their sites or tell their friends about it.

[NazcaC2]

Increase the number of META keywords since you've noticed mtasa.com further down on the results list. I'm just throwing out some ideas to get MTA noticed more. Call it what you want; these are just different approaches to the situation.

Edit: By doing a search in Google and typing "gta san andreas multiplayer", MTA only appears as the third entry so really it's not that bad.

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I presume people just check out both sites and decide based on visuals and immediate information. Given that the OP listed SAMP has more players is probably just a coincidence or because they were launched first. This is just speculation.

[Youngskeezey]

I always thought SA-MP was more popular because more people already knew about it, if more people find out about MTA, and test it, they'd switch to MTA. But I've also had a friend who has never heard of MTA, and has SA-MP.

[Maccer.]

You guys aren't innocent either. You made a freaking FaceBook attack on him. What happened in the past was a long ass time ago, yet you guys continue to hold a grudge.

Also, his reasons for the de-op, although I do not agree with them, are somewhat valid. You guys started hating each other and he felt that MTA shouldn't take over GTANet with op power. Sure, a hasty move, but I can't blame him for being worried when you guys were getting into such huge fights against one another. He probably was afraid you'd abuse his channel, whether that be something you would do or not.

Look people, I honestly don't give a **** for what happened in the past. I've read everything, seen everything, and been there for parts of it. Leave it in the past. It was how long ago? Obviously none of the devs hate each other THAT much anymore or there would still be wars and fights happening. It's all the fanboys like you guys that are creating this drawn out bull**** that doesn't need to happen, which is tearing the GTA multiplayer community apart. It shouldn't be about picking sides. This isn't a ****ing business war.

On a more positive note, start looking toward the gawd damn future and learn to get along. There is a HUGE amount of both of your userbases that actually play BOTH mods. I can proudly say I am one of them, and that I PROUDLY support BOTH of you EQUALLY. I'm a huge fan of what both of you have done for the betterment of the community, but the fighting needs to end. I've offered a few times over the last few weeks to both sides to try and come to a point of peace, and so far everyone thinks it's not possible because the other side won't do it. If it's not possible, then why the hell am I not banned from both channels with people saying they hate each other? Looks like the hate is for the most part subsided to me. Give it a chance. Try to speak with each other. We're all GTA fan and multiplayer lovers here. No reason to ***** one another out for the way we do things. Like I've said many, many times already in this topic, this isn't a ****ing business competition. It's about the mods that make us love the games even more.

That's awfully bad reasoning. "Because you kept fighting", you should read his reasoning for being able to do so.

well it’s not really blackmail because I was under the impression that this was gtanet and sa-mp IRC net

You forced them to choose between kicking MTA’s Operators / server off the network and #sa-mp leaving

Peter: only if I didn’t have influence already

I should have had influence by default

To kye, this is is a business competition, sa-mp is a business model. Kye now makes some living off of sa-mp. The censorship and the way of dealing with things that Kye has done is unexplainable. SA-MP is off of self-interest, not fun. We're not getting a long, because if we would, we could have a merged player-base, a both improved game-modes. Kye here, is a vile piece of, no, not here. Your reasoning is so completely horrid, I shouldn't even bother arguing.

[SugarD-x]

It was HOW long ago?

You're forgetting...whether you believe he treats it as a business or not, it's NOT A BUSINESS.

[robhol]

Wrong. The fact that he and Woet charge so much for "hosted listings" and the like actually does make it a business. Hosted listings is a near 100% profit area since putting ONE DATA ROW into a database for a month doesn't really cost much. At least nothing remotely close to the €10 - €12.50 they charge per server per month. That money goes pretty much straight into the pockets of Woet and Kye with very little effort on their part.

MTA is non-profit; SA-MP damn sure appears to be trying hard to get some profit with their AD spam, listing fees and let's say "marketing strategies": thus making SA-MP a business. They're taking money from people, carefully manipulating their customers (not that this is something a business should be doing, ideally,) and offering a service in return.

I honestly have to say, when Kye has shut down and restarted SA-MP XX times, I suspect a large part of his reason for reopening it was the potential for money. I doubt he gives more of a "****" ( ) about the mod itself than the community he's busily oppressing.

If it was about "fun" for Kye, then all the bullcrap would not have happened. And at the very least, he wouldn't have any reason for that totalitarian regime of his with its... distinct style of moderating.

[djlobo]

Wrong. The fact that he and Woet charge so much for "hosted listings" and the like actually does make it a business. Hosted listings is a near 100% profit area since putting ONE DATA ROW into a database for a month doesn't really cost much. At least nothing remotely close to the €10 - €12.50 they charge per server per month. That money goes pretty much straight into the pockets of Woet and Kye with very little effort on their part.

MTA is non-profit; SA-MP damn sure appears to be trying hard to get some profit with their AD spam, listing fees and let's say "marketing strategies": thus making SA-MP a business. They're taking money from people, carefully manipulating their customers (not that this is something a business should be doing, ideally,) and offering a service in return.

I honestly have to say, when Kye has shut down and restarted SA-MP XX times, I suspect a large part of his reason for reopening it was the potential for money. I doubt he gives more of a "****" ( ) about the mod itself than the community he's busily oppressing.

If it was about "fun" for Kye, then all the bullcrap would not have happened. And at the very least, he wouldn't have any reason for that totalitarian regime of his with its... distinct style of moderating.

You can be more detailed: 1060 euros per month *(hosted lists) for a thing wich cant be called effort (two years for some updates).

Also Hosted lists, althought you dont have to pay for play, if you buy a server you will need most likely to buy hosted list or your server will not be found for anyone on a internet list with 3000+ servers.

I could call it "Psycologhy scam".

[robhol]

Yeah, the stats are even more amazing when you actually calc the total earnings per month. I was unable to find any statistics on the hosted list and server numbers at the time, and I was damn sure not gonna install SA-MP to find it out. Least of all early in the morning and while in a hurry.

[SugarD-x]

IT'S STILL NOT A BUSINESS! NON-PROFIT MEANS JUST THAT!

Someone please lock this topic. It amazes me how people can twist things around.

[eAi]

Even if you're a charity, most legal systems would consider you a business.

[Andre9977]

IT'S STILL NOT A BUSINESS! NON-PROFIT MEANS JUST THAT!

They make money out of it and it is non-profit? They do profit from it if they get money from it!

After all the bullshit it wouldn't be a miracle if Kye and Woet ran it just to earn money blatantly from hosted list - Kye might have no faith in the project, just to earn back for the years. And for that sometimes pretend that there's some work progress.

[robhol]

SugarD-x: your opinion can be summarized in one word: wrong.

Obviously, "non-profit" stops being "non-profit" when profit is being made. That's what "non-" means.

I will freely admit I don't have detail knowledge of how much you'd have to pay for hosting the SA-MP website, forums and server list, but look at this:

At the last time I checked, the Hosted tab list was home to 116 servers. (As of around 14:00 my time.)

I will guesstimate that around 50% of these do use ServerFFS and thus pay €10. The rest will pay €12.50 because they don't use ServerFFS. (My, my, monopoly sure is profitable.) This is obviously by no means "valid" statistics, so if anybody has better ones, they're welcome to share them.

Anyway, for one month, this leaves us with the following:

58 * 12.50 EUR = 725 EUR

58 * 10.00 EUR = 580 EUR

In other words, for ONE MONTH, Kye and Woet rake in €1 305 or about $1 760 (USD) for a service with virtually no expenses or maintenance, since this service can be "piggybacked" upon any perfectly normal web server and almost, if not completely automated.

And this is only the hosted list. Advertisement on the forum and the like probably brings in amounts that are nowhere near these, but they should still be mentioned.

[Jumba']

IT'S STILL NOT A BUSINESS! NON-PROFIT MEANS JUST THAT!

Someone please lock this topic. It amazes me how people can twist things around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_organization

Read the first sentence. Do you really think it costs 1000+ euros per month to run SA-MP?

Don't be so ignorant.

[SugarD-x]

You people call me ignorant, yet you insist on arguing over which is a better mod rather than facing the fact that they are both amazing mods and should not even be compared in the first place. This kind of crap is tearing the GTA modding communities apart and makes me sick to see. I just hope someone locks this topic before this bull**** continues further...

[NazcaC2]

[robhol]

You people call me ignorant, yet you insist on arguing over which is a better mod rather than facing the fact that they are both amazing mods and should not even be compared in the first place. This kind of crap is tearing the GTA modding communities apart and makes me sick to see. I just hope someone locks this topic before this bull**** continues further...

As for "driving them apart", I'd say that is hardly even possible; the two communities are pretty much as far apart as they can be without an open conflict. I also don't see the illogical part of comparing two mods with the same aim for the same game.

And the fact that you see this as "bull****" is really your own issue and not our problem. With few exceptions this has been a fairly relevant discussion and not a flame fest, in which case your QQ-ing would be at least partially understandable.

I, for one, think "supporting" SA-MP's leader and/or management is undeserved and groundless to the point of WTF-ness. For the SA-MP fanboys that's one thing, and also the poor fellows who don't know better, or don't know how they're being manipulated. In my opinion, someone who's seen both sides of the conflict should really know better than that.

[Sergei]

The only case where you can mention MTA on SA:MP "property" is when you talk about map editor. It's funny how 99% of SA:MP fans use MTA's map editor and don't realize how better MTA is itself.

[eAi]

Sugar, it seems your contributions to this thread have been more aggressive and inflammatory than most others'. We're happy for other people to discuss other mods as they wish on our forum, we just don't need people being aggressive, which is how your posts comes across. People can have and express opinions about MTA or other mods - they can say whatever they want, but they will be held to account for it. That's part of having an intelligent discussion.

You state that SAMP is not-for-profit, when that's undeniably not the case. They may not be making a substantial amount of money, but that's beside the fact. MTA, and the vast majority of mods for all games do it for The Love alone. Whether that makes them better or worse mods is for the players to decide.

MTA has at least it's history and originality on it's side, if nothing else. We'd like to think it has a friendly, open and welcoming community. We'd like to think it had all the features and the stability our players want. We'd like to think that being open source helps anyone who's interested get involved and contribute to improving MTA even further. Of course, all these things are subjective.

[djlobo]

I can resume the future of this topic and of mta in a few lines:

I see me as example, i was on samp and blablabla so much player and blablabla but on the final of all. we want a mod wich dont "hibernate" on updates and have allways new things coming ( or at least give us the possibility to script that "things" ), samp has become stone age, and the rest of you already know: i moved to mta, and im sure will dont take more then a few months to other server owners and his players come to MTA to, most likely because the 0.3 was their "major"( or should be minor? )update in ages, they espect 0.3a wich will not bring anything new and then to 0.4 will be most likely more 2 years...

PS: My long explanation and bad gramar dont help, but you might get a idea of what i want to say in general.

[Maccer.]

You people call me ignorant, yet you insist on arguing over which is a better mod rather than facing the fact that they are both amazing mods and should not even be compared in the first place.

You got it wrong again, we, or at least I don't, hate sa-mp. In-fact, I have the upmost respect for it's past developers that helped shape the mod. However, Kye, the project leader... is somebody who I guess you could say, "hate." His acts of censorship, competition, and treatment of developers, are unspeakable. This isn't about hate of sa-mp, this is about Kye's actions.

[SugarD-x]

You people call me ignorant, yet you insist on arguing over which is a better mod rather than facing the fact that they are both amazing mods and should not even be compared in the first place.

You got it wrong again, we, or at least I don't, hate sa-mp. In-fact, I have the upmost respect for it's past developers that helped shape the mod. However, Kye, the project leader... is somebody who I guess you could say, "hate." His acts of censorship, competition, and treatment of developers, are unspeakable. This isn't about hate of sa-mp, this is about Kye's actions.

And this is a topic comparing MTA and SA:MP. Wrong place. Try again.

[ecoxp]

As a experienced scripter in PAWN, for SA:MP, it was just 2 days for me to migrate correctly to LUA to make awesome things. Come on, I didn't want till the awesome functions and awesome sync attracted me

And as you say, Kye is really a very short words man, and I DONT KNOW how he managed to make SA:MP a sucess, he discrepated all his donators, programmers (not same than scripters) and he is really negliglent.

WHY SA:MP IS POPULAR THAN MTA?

SA:MP is the bad boy here, it really lacks of awesome functions, it takes AGES for Kye to make just a minor release (remember, SA:MP is just a beta from its starting, as 0.3a means MAJOR VERSION 0, MINOR VERSION 3, STAGE Alpha.

MTA could be compared to a nerd boyhere, maybe he is less popular but he is clearly clever, with good minds making this open source project a really hit, and we are already in the 1.0.3 that means MAJOR VERSION 1, MINOR VERSION 0, BUGFIX 3.

Other projects are just the girls in the game, they are clearly, not a pain in the neck for MTA neither SA:MP

I really think MTA will become god in some time, we will see

[Maccer.]

You people call me ignorant, yet you insist on arguing over which is a better mod rather than facing the fact that they are both amazing mods and should not even be compared in the first place.

You got it wrong again, we, or at least I don't, hate sa-mp. In-fact, I have the upmost respect for it's past developers that helped shape the mod. However, Kye, the project leader... is somebody who I guess you could say, "hate." His acts of censorship, competition, and treatment of developers, are unspeakable. This isn't about hate of sa-mp, this is about Kye's actions.

And this is a topic comparing MTA and SA:MP. Wrong place. Try again.

Yeah, but notice the root of this discussion. I bumped this topic in a little regret... but I began talking about Kye's unspeakable actions. If somebody hates sa-mp simply because it's simply less functional, than they are just simply fan-boys. However, the sa-mp community is filled with fanboys that support Kye's tactics, and refuse to even try MTA.

[SugarD-x]

I am baffled by this. Could someone please explain? How does SAMP have more players than MTA? Maybe my server browser is broken or something. MTA is clearly the better mod. Thanks in advance.

And this is a topic comparing MTA and SA:MP. Wrong place. Try again.

*Sigh*...