Consensus?

[Nutz]

I thought it would be helpful to summarize the gameplay issues that I see a general consensus on

with the hope that they might make it into the next client release.

There are many other issues, particularly involving animation glitches that there is still much disagreement but I think most agree on this:

- Give us alot more ammo (especially on m60)

- Do not reduce damage on any weapon to balance gameplay, increase it on others if necessary

- bring back the spaz

- do any one of the following to spread out gameplay:

a. use the shoreside vale style spawn selection where all weapons are available at

a selection of spawnpoints/skins

b. multiple robber spawn locations

c. give another character stubby (crusader)

[borosky]

hahahah

nah, i dont think the "kfc way" is the option. it should be a consensus agreed between all major gangs. this is my personal opinion on what should be modified in the patch:

the devs need to bring "teh jump glitch" (rofl) back to the stubby.

the low stubby damage is ok as far as i see it, it should only reduce the stubby whoring. however m60 should defenitly deal more damage. atm m60 is totally lame

for the spaz i agree, it was a very fun weapon BUT it should be placed in a very difficult area to access.

multiple robber spawn locations in an excellent idea, i v mentioned it already a few times accross the forums

i expect the mta team to get out there and ask all the gang leaders what are their opinions, and revive the mta.... as it is now, half of the hardcore gamers have turned away, mta has almost commited suicide. i hope the next release wont be "the nail to the coffin"

good luck

[Gamefreek]

I dont see whats wrong with the m60 either. Everytime i have it i kill someone in 15 or so shots, thats probably the same amount someone uses to kill someone in a robber spawn war...

[Nutz]

hahahah

nah, i dont think the "kfc way" is the option. it should be a consensus agreed between all major gangs.

That was the whole point of this thread. I also note that you went on to agree with most (if not all) of what I posted.

I don't want to discuss any glitches in this thread because there isn't any consensus about what to do about them as far as I can tell.

[Outback]

- Give us alot more ammo (especially on m60)

Agreed

- Do not reduce damage on any weapon to balance gameplay, increase it on others if necessary

If all weapons were raised in proportion to the stubby, then no one would be alive long enough to have a chance at fighting back. (That would be a NO)

- bring back the spaz

HELL NO!

c. give another character stubby (crusader)

A stubby whore is a stubby whore is a stubby whore. Moving spawns isn't going to help.

[:OutLaW:]

...i agree with most of wut nutz is saying...cept for the making robbers random spawnpoints...personally huge robber spawnwars are my favorite thing in mta

[Nutz]

If all weapons were raised in proportion to the stubby, then no one would be alive long enough to have a chance at fighting back. (That would be a NO)

I think you are overestemate the ammount of tinkering that would be required. Personally

I would prefer leaving weapon.dat alone but the following changes might put *some* other weapons on par with stubby:

m60 default damage is already close enough

m4 and ruger could be increased slightly from default

mp5 and python could be increased slightly but not to bring them up to m60/stubby

leave all other weapons alone

The idea isn't to normalize every weapon to stubby but to increase very slightly some other "major" weapons to make them more competative. I don't think this will make it impossible

to stay alive or fight back.

- bring back the spaz

HELL NO!

I realize this is a bit more sensitive but there do seem to be alot of players that want it back. I don't recall it being a problem in 0.3.

c. give another character stubby (crusader)

A stubby whore is a stubby whore is a stubby whore. Moving spawns isn't going to help.

Short of taking it out completely, which I don't think there is much support for I'm trying to think of quick fixes that could easially be implemented in the client update. Option c is probably the easiest to do and safest because it involves minimal scm changes. while

not a complete fix, do you think that would help?

I'm sure the team would welcom more complex solutions for new major versions (if there is another major release on this core).

[Outback]

I think you are overestemate the ammount of tinkering that would be required. Personally

I would prefer leaving weapon.dat alone but the following changes might put *some* other weapons on par with stubby

m60 default damage is already close enough

m4 and ruger could be increased slightly from default

mp5 and python could be increased slightly but not to bring them up to m60/stubby

leave all other weapons alone

The idea isn't to normalize every weapon to stubby but to increase very slightly some other "major" weapons to make them more competative. I don't think this will make it impossible

to stay alive or fight back.

Sounds good that way.

I realize this is a bit more sensitive but there do seem to be alot of players that want it back. I don't recall it being a problem in 0.3.

Other than the fact that everyone and their brother carries one. :-\

Short of taking it out completely, which I don't think there is much support for I'm trying to think of quick fixes that could easially be implemented in the client update. Option c is probably the easiest to do and safest because it involves minimal scm changes. while

not a complete fix, do you think that would help?

They need to fix the reload/wepswitch timer to get rid of the glitching. That right there would cut down on its usage since it wouldn't be as effective.

[gamebro]

I think the DELAY needs to be fixed.

Like for example--- When I can take my pistol, shoot a guy standing still, see that FIRST SHOT do damage, and within a reasonable amount of time, I think most of the serious problems with fighting will have been solved. In real life a stubby robber would not get close to a guy spraying machine gun fire at him. Only in a game as delayed as MTA can this, and does happen.

And if the delay can not be fixed, then screw it! I'll just play stunt, or other games because this fighting style sucks.

Honestly, what is so enjoyable about STRUGGLING to HIT anyone???? Boring!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Zircon]

I dont see whats wrong with the m60 either. Everytime i have it i kill someone in 15 or so shots, thats probably the same amount someone uses to kill someone in a robber spawn war...

What do you mean there's nothing wrong with it?

At its current state...

M60: 15 points of damage per hit, slower firing rate, shorter range, less ammo available overall.

M4: 14 points of damage per hit, faster firing rate, longer range, more ammo available overall.

...therefore making the M60 totally obsolete. The mexican is useless now. So yes, that needs to be fixed. In additon to the damage being increased, I also recommend giving the M60 more ammo (as people have said here) and bringing molotovs back at spawn.

The stubby needs major changes, but I think what I outlined in my topic would make it balanced enough. Remove the ability to switch before the shooting/reloading animation has finished, in addition to disabling crouching/jumping, which has already been done. Seeing as how it would lack mobility then and still have such a short range, increasing the damage (above the default value) would be a good idea.

Do the same to the cop shotgun (although don't increase the damage, since it has such a long range), as it would probably be the next alternative to stubby whores.

Prontera also made this suggestion, but I highly recommend it: set the switch time 5 or so intervals after the end of the animation on all weapons. This means that no one can switch during/after the reloading animation, making it impossible to create a warp effect.

FYI, the spas 12 was originally taken out in 0.4 because it was thought to be overpowered. It was disallowed in gang wars, and most players frowned upon usage of it. Some servers even kicked people for having it in their inventory. I don't mind it being brought back, but it won't make a lot of people happy.

Though for some reason I seriously doubt the MTA team will do anything about our suggestions here, since they don't care about gameplay anymore...

I think the DELAY needs to be fixed.

Like for example--- When I can take my pistol, shoot a guy standing still, see that FIRST SHOT do damage, and within a reasonable amount of time, I think most of the serious problems with fighting will have been solved. In real life a stubby robber would not get close to a guy spraying machine gun fire at him. Only in a game as delayed as MTA can this, and does happen.

And if the delay can not be fixed, then screw it! I'll just play stunt, or other games because this fighting style sucks.

Honestly, what is so enjoyable about STRUGGLING to HIT anyone???? Boring!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I do agree that 0.5's lag is horrible.

I haven't lagged this badly in every server I went to since the release of 0.4 (the version with the bandwidth bug). This really needs to be addressed, I think.

[Nutz]

I realize this is a bit more sensitive but there do seem to be alot of players that want it back. I don't recall it being a problem in 0.3.

Other than the fact that everyone and their brother carries one. :-\

I guess it depends on which server you are on. It would be annoying if everyone always used it. maybe putting it in a difficult location would help. Someone pointed out that only experienced players would have it then, but I remember experienced players using it sparingly if at all. Peer pressure was a big part of that.

My personal favorite "difficult" place is on the upper level of one of the stilt houses with a roof in the bay. The only way to get there in mta is with a heli, and you have to carefully land and take off from the small dock at the base. It doesn't even look like a heli would fit there because the blades go through the pylons, but it does work. Heck, even getting a heli can be a challenge these days

They need to fix the reload/wepswitch timer to get rid of the glitching. That right there would cut down on its usage since it wouldn't be as effective.

There is still alot of disagreement on that so I'm intentionally excluding it from this thread with the hopes of getting the other points across to the devs as clearly as possible.

They can go through the other threads and come to their own conclusions of what we want. There has certainly been no shortage of opinions on that

[Nutz]

At its current state...

Just to keep this thread on topic, it sounds like you agree with the points in the first post?

I don't want to get in to animation glitches in the thread as it's been covered comprehensively elsewhere.

[[KFC]KungFu]

I actually posted a suggestion in the suggestion section... silly me

Whoever made the bullshit KFC comment... Please understand that Nutz is interested in a better MTA like us all keep your personal issues to yourself thanks

My idea in the link above is aimed at making a quick and easy fix to this version that doesn't involve a huge change

I love stubby shotgun... it's very fun... but it's the source of 90% of the disagreements

I propose getting rid of the weapons that are easiest to exploit (nades, mollies and stubby)

I would give the "robber" character the cop shotty.. as well as Crusader... I would want a great spawnwar spawn for the robber (preferably Dirtring)

I would also want this character to have the best set of weapons (M60, M4, chainsaw, Mp5, colt and shotgun)

He could be used to satisfy spawnwar lovers and as easy setup for wars...

The cop shotty would be just as fun as the stubby and the stubby can make it's comeback in blue

(they could also let the stubby be a hard to get pickup with jumping enabled if they wanted)

I know this won't be a super popular idea with most ppl but it's easy to do and it would end the glitch arguments for a while

[Nutz]

I actually posted a suggestion in the suggestion section...

Those are good ideas but in this thread I'm trying to get a rough consensus on the specific suggestions in the first post. It sounds like it's actually a strong consensus on most points.

One of the problems related in the respect thread was that they have a hard time determining exactly what we want because there isn't one voice summarizing the opinions.

Since I realize we cannot come to an agreement on all of the animation glitch problems, I decided to gather a consensus on some ideas we do mostly agree on. These are suggestions that would be easy to implement in the forthcoming client patch.

That's not to say these are the only things that need to be fixed or that they are the best way to fix them, but if we can agree that these easy fixes would be good for all then maybe, just maybe they will happen and we will be better off than without them.

[Zircon]

Nutz:

- I do agree that the M60 needs to be fixed.

- Yes, reducing damage on any weapon is pointless if you're intending to balance gameplay.

- If the spas 12 is brought back, then it would need some major adjustments. It's far too overpowered as it is.

- I think all spawns should be randomized to prevent spawn wars.

KFG... I don't know if that would balance gameplay. That's kind of what we're aiming for here.

[[KFC]KungFu]

I just made a wanna be witty quip Nutz... I get the idea of this thread and I agree with most of what you are saying... more lead... more damage... kill them all and let god sort them out.

I think it will be hard to get a consensus from ppl on bring the spaz back thou

I am against having no shotgun spawnwar locations (ie random spawn for robber)..

The rest of my things are in that post if anyone agrees good ...

I am gonna play whatever MTA puts out even if it's just bats and water pistols so whatever they come up with will be fine but I did have a few items on my wishlist

Zircon... having noone with the all powerful weapon and a few spawns with copshotty and 2 with M60 would be a bit of balance I think... they could still go further and adjust some damage levels too

Also noone uses the characters as originally intended (with rivals and ememies etc...) The one character with a good set of weapons would be invaluable for saving time in gangwars and great for 1 on 1s

[Zircon]

The cop shotgun will just take the place of the stubby if it's removed or actually balanced (as in no crouching, jumping, or switching). It's still a powerful weapon.

So that won't solve anything unless the same is done to the cop shotgun (balanced or removed).

But why remove a weapon when it's perfectly possible to balance it and even the playing field even further?

[DeathB]

im not for what you guys seem to think is balancing the stubby

i say, give it 25 dmg, and leave the current switching system sans running in as it is now

i say give the mexis back thier molys, them having 75 bullets its mental, give them 300 back to

as far as m4s go, the advantage they should have is purely ammo. they will never compete one on one with an m60 in a strait fight and its retarded to nuke the m60 until it does. and strengthening the m4 is also a bad idea due to its rate of fire

as far as ruger goes, it should be a slightly lower dmg m60 with more ammo. the rate of fire on it is slower then the m4, and thus the dmg should obviously be higher

mp5 i say up the dmg a notch, not a little but just a notch

as far as one class spawning with everything, that kinda ruins the idea of having one powerful weapon and a bunch of supporting weapons. tho an alternate scm im sure could accomplish that. but you kno more about alternate scms then me im sure ul come up with something

with that said.. /me goes back to work

[Zircon]

im not for what you guys seem to think is balancing the stubby

i say, give it 25 dmg, and leave the current switching system sans running in as it is now

Therefore leaving in the ability to switch before the shooting animation even starts?

Like Prontera said, a +5 interval past the animation end for the switch time would allow the reloading animation to finish properly on everyone's screen. Otherwise (if you switch before that), you're going to warp all over the place.

Doing that for every weapon (as well as disabling crouching and jumping with the shotgun) will make gameplay very balanced.

I agree with most of the points here, but I don't see why everyone is so against removing simulated warp from weapons completely...

[Nutz]

im not for what you guys seem to think is balancing the stubby

i say, give it 25 dmg, and leave the current switching system sans running in as it is now

Except you went on to basically agree with most of the first post (except you want stubby power reduced from default), right?

This thread is not about weapon switching, only the specific suggestions in the first post.

[Nutz]

I agree with most of the points here, but I don't see why everyone is so against removing simulated warp from weapons completely...

That is for the other threads. Actually I'm going to start a poll to try to get a feel for where the community is on that.

[Nutz]

I think it will be hard to get a consensus from ppl on bring the spaz back thou

I am against having no shotgun spawnwar locations (ie random spawn for robber)..

Option 'c' which is easiest to implement would not make random locations but add it to crusader. Can you agree with that?

One motivation for this thread is to have a set of agreeable improvements that will help regardless of what they do with the animation glitches.

There was only one objection to spaz, and that ammounted to "everyone will use it all the time" which I don't think is a widespread occurrance and would be mitigated by a difficult pickup location.

[=TmM= MaDMiKe [CL]]

is it me or am i the only one that dident care about the stubby glitching in 0.3....cuz killing them with the M60 was good if u knew what u were doing. All i care about is the M60 being brought back to how it used to b and the robber spawn being spread out.I can handle stubby glitches easy as i was a m60er cuz theres always other ways round things.

[[KFC]KungFu]

I agree Mike the M60 did balance the stubby back then... or the chainsaw/M60/mollie combo at least

I have just one simple request then if the other thing doesn't fly

Can you give the sailor the cop shotty? It's right at the Cherry Popper anyway just save us the walk... thanks

[borosky]

just bring the jumping glitch back to the stubby plz kthx later