him selfe

You backed up my original argument well, but now choose to make into a personal attack against me. I have been supporting other multiplayer mods for a very long time. I really do find it an insult that you should think that i never think critical of MTA and its community, because i already said that the post was phrased wrong. Personally i also feel that the race mod may not have been a good idea for first release. I've always tried to remain neutral with multiplayer mods, and anyone who knows me (i hope) knows that i dont attack other mods. More to the point, with the release of MTA, and being part of the QA team, it is my duty to defend the MTA team - help them with things other than beta testing. The team are taking more and more pressure and flaming from all directions, the blog, forums and outside the bounds of mtavc.com, dare i say even from beta testers of SA-MP posting in public. SInce the release of MTA r1 ive had to take a stance that is very strict to help - much more strict than i have ever thought it would take. You see, I almost have to take the stance of the MTA team in a number of things, because it has become a part of being in the QA team. If flaming against MTA does take place, i have to defend it and make a formal reply as any MTA team member would do. Of course this doesnt apply with everything Not all my responses may be entirely neutral, though i always avoid anti-other mod comments. If you do not understand the position I have to take with this mod, then please dont make an attack on me personally. I do look critically at MTA, though you may still call me a 'fanboy' if you like, because ever since the release of MTASA r1 i knew i would have to take this responsibility. I really do feel offended and request an apology. Well i will appologise for that comment. And thoug this is no justification for saying it, i will explain why i said such a comment; I'm fed up of seeing people in some way dragging SA:MP in to the picutre whenever sombody is critical of MTA, I will admit i'm on the SA:MP beta team, however nothing i say about MTA has anything to do with SA:MP, i've had a diminishing view of MTA and it's team since before i joined the SA:MP beta testing team, and the reason i take such a critical view these days is because i am disapointed of the way things have gone, i used to be a fan of MTA and thought the old series of mods brought something great to the comunity, however there is a growing view that the MTA team are growing too big for their boots and i agree with that view, my aim is not to bash MTA, far from it, but i will admit many of my discussions do turn in to flaming wars because of the people who blindly attack anybody who's critical of MTA, there are bad people on both sides of the picture. Indeed it has, but other people took it that way so if you're going to punish me for taking part you must also punish the others, including the ones that are 'on your side'. I'm sorry this reply is late and is regarding what's now an old post, just wanted to clarify what i've said.

who are you to talk like SA-MP is the ONLY alternative multiplayer mod!! That was in reply to what JonChappell said in regards to SA:MP fanboys, it had no relation to what was said in the interview atall, nor would i ever make that claim

Ok: SA:MP fan boys aren't part of this convorsation, they are not relevent to this convorsation, and in essence, it is a completely redundant thing to say. Indeed, you refuse to think. Or more acuratly, you refuse to think anything critical of MTA and it's comunity, even if it is in the wrong. The fact is, the original quote is an arrogent quote to make, however missworded it might be, and any attempt to defend that aorrogence only makes them look worse. If they simply accepted that they said something that was out of order then people wouldnt be complaining, but they seem defiant of ever believing they have flaws. Everybody has flaws, get over it, if you're going to make comments like that you're going to get people reacting to it. And thats all i really have to say, i'm not interested in falling deeper in to what has rapidly turned in to a flamewar, like i keep saying, spin it how you like, there's no denying what was said.

In honesty you just wanted to take a dig at SA:MP fans, thats how it sounds, so try and spin it any way you like

Well it's been implied several times in the past that i'm an SA:MP fanboy, so i just thought i'd clarify that, since some of you have a habit of making false claims. Also i dont really see any SA:MP 'fanboys' contributing to this discussion so it's a bit of an assumption to make that SA:MP fanboys are involved atall.

If the intention was to immitate MTA then there wouldnt be a problem, the problem lies in the fact that you assume that others are attempting to immitate you, and you assume that simply because you were the first on the block you are the authoirty when it comes to multiplayer GTA. And when people point out that you were out of line making that statement (which could easily mislead the less awear fans) instead of appologising (although hands out to those who did) you maintain your level of arrogence and maintain that you are the IT mod and everybody else just wants to be like you, when infact, no other serious mod would possibly immitate what you're offering at the moment. You make bold assumptions and then report them as facts, that is moraly corrupt and people will always complain about that, if you dont like the fact that people speak out against your actions, dont be so arrogent in the first place. EDIT: I'd like to once again point out that my criticism of MTA and it's team has absolutly nothing to do with SA:MP, i am not a SA:MP fanboy and if you'd see my treatment of SA:MP fanboys you'd be well awear of that, i hate fanboys nomater what they support. It is you who keeps applying the SA:MP stamp to any critical view of MTA. At the end of the day there is no way of justifying that statement because it was made without proof or any foundation, it was an arrogant assumption to make no mater who the target was, even if there was no target atall, it's not something you have proof of or the right to claim.

Thats a very bold and presumptuous statement to make. Considering there was plenty of interest and some very skilled people out there, it was inevitable that it would hapen. I personally had considered the posibility of a third party GTA3 mod before GTA3 was even released on the PC, simply because i and my friends thought it would be fun, I lost interest in gta3 for a while and when i regained interest i found MTA and was happy with the way it was going so saw no need for me to do anything, i'm lazy so i'd rather let other people do it But the point is sombody would have done it eventualy.

Simply put, competition is healthy and it pormotes development. I doubt many people create multiplayer mods because they want to immitate MTA, and claiming so without foundation is arrogent, no mater how you try and spin it. As kyeman has said many people will atempt to create their own multiplayer mods for gta because they want to learn how it's done and have some fun doing it. People will create multiplayer GTA mods because they want multiplayer GTA, not because they want to immitate MTA, and if they have played MTA before starting their own project, they're most likely doing it because they're not satisfied with the mods that are already out there. If they were perfectly happy with MTA, and they didn't want to learn how to do it them selves, they probably wouldn't waste the time and effort creating a new one. The fact is no mod is perfect, and since MTA is not open source people can't easily apply the changes they'd like to see without being on the team. Having multiple mods out there is a good thing for fans of GTA who want to play it online because it increases the chances of there being a mod that will match their idea of how multiplayer GTA should be. At the end of the day the fans will choose which they want to play. And if they're not happy with what's out there, they will try and make a new one. You did not invent the concept of multiplayer GTA, there were plenty of ideas floating around before MTA existed, just because you managed to push out a mod before anybody else does not mean you have some sort of intellectual right over the idea. If you think people shouldnt spend their time trying to create a multiplayer mode for GTA and should spend their time working on something else, then it's even more of a reason for others to do so, because it means you're geting too big for your boots and you're attempting to snub the player's choice of variety.

Not to be rude, but do you really blame people for acusing you of being censorist (for lack of a better word) if you reply to every critical view with a polite mug of "STFU"? You can do as you will with me, i've had my say, however don't for an instant make the mistake of thinking that will make anything better. I have no reason to defend my actions because i did not start posting in any hostile way, i simply stated my disapointment, i'm not going to shut up simply because people don't like the truth. And censoring me will only prove you have serious flaws in your method and product. I had no intention of flaming and it was your own comunity that took the convorsation down hill. If you dont want to hear things like this, improve your tactics, because censoring me wont end it. If you want your comunity to be full of idiots go ahead and ban me. I used to be a fan but this is ridiculous, you know you're failing and now you're geting desperate. Banning me wont change a thing and as things currently stand, i really wont be missing out on anything, so enjoy.

The reason why i posted in this thread instead of any other was because my original post was in reference to both MTA:SA as a whole and the topic of this thread, and i wasn't simply 'MTA bashing' i was stating my opinion, people asked me to expand on that opinion so i did. I wasn't simply saying "omfg mta t3h sux0r". And to be honest i have absolutly no idea what SA:MP has to do with any of this. It's all good accusing fans of other mods for flaming MTA, but you're the ones instigating that when you imediatly jump on anybody who's critical of MTA and accuse them of being a fanboy for another mod. Get over SA:MP because it has absolutly nothing to do with my judgement of MTA. SA:MP does not apply in any way because it's not even released yet and any judgement anybody makes can only be made in assumption unless they have had the privilige of testing it. It is you who seem to have an obsession with other mods in relation to MTA and you don't seem to be able to accept the flaws of MTA in comparison with itself. Everybody has opinions, good and bad, and if if so much hype is made over something that really isn't that amazing it's bound to draw the atention of people who are critical of that hype. If MTA wishes to attract atention by all means it's free to do so but unfortunatly that will attract both good and bad attention, and deluding your selves won't solve that, it'll only make it worse. As for me being in the 'minority' most people i've spoken to about these issues agree and have witnessed exactly the same issues, on a wide range of different hardware. While the 6600GT isn't the latest most amazing top of the range graphics card, it's more than capable of running heavyweight engines with ease, it can render far more in the doom3 engine with no slowdown than it needs to render in MTA:SA. And it can render far more in SA without the amount of slowdown that's evident in MTA:SA.

Thats not the impression i was given by the dev team. I've never stated that i am. And whether i am or not doesn't make me part of any official SA:MP team. Nor does it have any bearing on this discussion. As i have stated, my issues with MTA are just that, issues with MTA, they have absolutly no relation to any other mod. For me to be a "SAMP person" i would have to be predominantly affiliated with SA:MP in some way by either being on some official SA:MP team, or by being a SA:MP fanboy, of which i am neither. I make no claim to be representing SA:MP in any way and nor do i wish to undermine the developers of other mods by doing so. Don't try and palm off the failings of one mod by blaming things on the fans of other mods. I'd also like to point out that as far as i was awear, the SA:MP comunity were happily being quiet and geting on with their own thing completely independant of anything to do with MTA untill MTA fanboys started spaming SA:MP related discussions with adverts for MTA. The SA:MP comunity even have to put up with MTA fans mistakenly thinking that they are in some way something to do with MTA and complaining about "the game" on SA:MP threads when infact they're talking about MTA. With that in mind i couldn't really blame people if some of the SA:MP comunity start to resent MTA.

You are surprised now that the mod is racing only, when it has been announced since day one? If any hype was generated, it was about the race mod.. At what point did i state i was suprised it was a racing mod? I've been active enough in the #mta channel to know it was a racing only mod long before it was released, what i'm disapointed at is how poor something that was touted as 'revolutionary' is. I am not a SAMP person, i have never mentioned SAMP on anything involving the MTA comunity, I am neutral when it comes to mods, and i'll judge each mod based on it's own merits not how it compares to other mods, especialy when they dont do the same thing. I am criticising MTA for it's own failings which have absolutly no relation to any other mod.

If you want an example of the hype, how about how several times several of the 'team' stated that what they were working on was a revolution in multiplayer gaming. If you want me to be frank, i'd expect 8 months of 'hard work' to churn out something a little better than a novelty. I have to admit this racing mod did bring a new edge to SA but in doing so it completely lost the meaning of GTA. And considering the whole reason it was stated that they were working on a racing mod first was to get it perfectly bug freeso they could work on the easyer stuff like foot sync later, what they've released is very disapointing, because it's far from bug free. It crashed atleast twice in the first hour of playing, warping cars does not represent good sync, and as for performance it's appauling. I could be doing top speed on a straight in a perfectly undamaged car, and watch sombody with exactly the same car without nitro come up behind me and speed off in to the distance, the skill argument does not apply because it doesn't take skill to hold down the forward button. At the start of most 'races' even if you start at the front with nothing blocking you people behind you will pass you the moment the race starts, in a large server most maps are spent by the magority of people watching 2 or 3 lucky players drive freely to the end or just go around aimlessly exploring the city. In alot of maps people get mangled up in the first or second checkpoint and either have to wait there for a good half a min waiting for their upturned car to explode or die instantly trying to get away from the carnage because one car explodes and starts off a chain reaction. The fps on parts of most maps is quite appauling, i get almost no slowdown atall runing SA in 1600x1200 on my 6600gt in single player however even in 1024x768 in MTA it slows to well below 20fps. And as for the actual racing, there's usualy no competition because who wins is down to whoever's lucky enough to not get tangled up in the carnage at the start and whoever hapens to have the best performance. Performance issues create a large disadvantage and that's not fun because it removes any effect skill has. After all that you're pretty much left with a game where you have the choice between driving around aimlessly for a few mins or watching people warp around aimlessly for a painfully boring few mins. And as far as im awear with the default settings on the server voting to change map is monopolised by the 1 or 2 players that dont want to change map, which leaves the choice of either spending most of your time being bored to death or quiting. And i havent even begun to scrape the surface when it comes to random (somtimes critical) objects simply disapearing from the map, and the large abundance of poorly designed maps that seem to have random inapropriate objects like buildings poking up in the road and badly laid 'roads' or completely inapropriate vehicle choices for critical parts of the map, for example a boat on land at the first checkpoint, which is so narow that half the server ends up stuck. Having said all that, I really do have to wonder what exactly you've spent the past 8 months doing, especialy considering most (if not all) the core netcode is done by raknet, and the gui is done by CEGUI. There is indeed far more to making a GTA mod than just the netcode and gui, for example hooking certain routines, however it does make you wonder how much of it is actualy original code and how much of it is just bits of premade code hacked together. If you hadn't spent so much time hyping the game up and working on nothing more than a novelty which you hyped as a revolution, then perhaps people wouldn't be disapointed and annoyed. As far as i can see the 'comunity' is split in to two groups, those who blindly worship MTA and it's developers and think it's the most amazing thing to ever exist, and those who see what a disapointment it is and how over hyped it has all been. I dont mean to be rude, but this is what hapens when you over-hype things.

All the work they've done and shown on MTA:SA sofar.

I have to admit, I'm quite disapointed that this is all you've managed to achieve after 8 months of 'hard' work and all the hype. I'm not knocking MTA or comparing it to any other mod, but from all the hype you guys generated i was expecting a bit more.