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peds and cops in .03


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i dont think there are going to be ped\caps\traffic at all.

1) gta3's dispaly buffer is (i believe) 30 so you cant have ai taking up space for players.. (unless they resize the buffer, however we dont know if thats possible yet)

2) syncing traffic is hard. because traffic is random, and ai is spontaenous, everyones screens have different traffic.. this cause the game to crash... thats why is v.02 its really stable at the airport, because there is on ai/traffic there

3) thiry people in once city with team death match, ctc, and liberty city survivor i dont personally think will get borning.. but that's just me

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im not saying 30 ppl in one game will be boring, but that wont be that common, im just saying if im a on a lan, with a friend, and we play MTA, just 1v1 wood get boring without peds and COPS!! i no that sync stuff can be a problem, but at least make it a option to turn on and off peds/cops/traffic even if its not the best thing to do :o

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is there anyway that instead of the players computers generating the surroundings, that the actual server could generate the surroundings for all the players? Sure, this should be an option. Non-dedicated servers will have problems with this. But if youve got a fast dedicated one, it might turn out very good. Im not sure if this is possible anyways, and would probably require a large amount of coding, but it would be cool if it is possible. Maybe the team could take this into consideration? :D

PS: the game only allows so many NPC (cars and pedestrians) at time, but if the amount could be increased, and equally distributed, I doubt it would be much of a problem. The AI in GTA3 is pretty poor so it doesnt take up much CPU. Or maybe, the server could just generate say 100 pedestrians (or however many) before a game, and they would stay there and not disapear so the server doesnt have to keep randomizing. I dont know how gta3 works tho. It sounds like you would need a superior netcode though . .. and coming from a mod thats working from the scratch boards, I can see why it could be a large problem.

PS#2 (lol): Ive also noticed that players like to cooperate in games against the computer. Cooperative gameplay is a amazing feature.

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People, we don't want this to turn into another online GTA2. For those who don't know, GTA2's onine script was pathetically horrible, and will lag no matter what connection you are on because it's drawing all the pedestrians AND vehicles on the same screen. I highly doubt they will find a way to have peds and ped cars (Though, now I'm wondering how we're going to get cars once ours blows up... Unless we respawn in our previous car.) though it would be nice to have some toggle in a later version. If you are expecting it for 0.3, you are a fool. Give the guys some time to develop it. Yeah, first post. :roll:

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my idea was and still is (ignoring some of the facts i posted above) that instaed of having gta3 generate ai, have gta3:mta do it intead. it each version of mta had the same random seed and or instead of random, have a looping pattern, when two people are on the same screen.. it doesnt matter becuase mta knows what should be where ahead of time, preveting the lag of sending synced traffic\peds. all though youd still need to resize buffer and this would be a load of work.. well thats my idea

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if mta was able to generate peds that would make the game a lot easier. It would still have to sync the peds around every other player i guess. The player may not see them, but another character's interaction with them would have to be accounted for

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So, when the 1st player see cop, that doesn't mean the 2nd player see the cop in the same place the 1st player see? Or do they see the cop at the same place?

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WOW. I find this very confusing.. actually i dont but whatever. I think that it would be really cool with the old idea where you have the bubble and then when you touch somebody else's bubble it syncs it. BUT it would be reallly laggy once you get in somebodys bubble woulden't it??

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[guess]the new version should have data compression and a new netcode, so the game should run fine on a 56k[/guess].

Peds and AI will hopefully be syncd in 0.3a, but to what range and how I guess is up to the programmers.

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Can't an area be idle until a player wanders into it, and then the traffic and pedestrians begin to move again? For example, after you leave a portion of the screen, it freezes and goes back to a stagnent position and the new area that you're at begins to gain activity from the computer?

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surley, only the police and players matter. so, that's all the server really needs to keep track of. Then, when two players go into the same area, then the server starts churning out peds/cars. it doesn't need to specify the *type* of anything, just that it is a car or a ped. this way, the players can play around with their own peds, nick cars etc, and nothing matters, until two of them cross paths, when the server does 1/2 the randomisation. To combat the problem of going for a ped car whilst in this server-control mode, could be easily countered by making all the ped cars the same when the server is controlling them.

am i making sense?

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ah, didn't think of that.

ok, how about, when two players meet, one player becomes a "pseudo-server" (based on data about connection speed, processor etc). this pseudo-server then randomizes the stuff and passes it out to all the other players IN THAT AREA (they connect directly to him, and he is connected to the main server, could cause more lag)

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here is another idea of traffic syncing, that i hadnt thot to add before:

-each area has a pre-defined set of static traffic (placed by mta team) the areas would be the different districts: Red Light, Hepburn Heights, China Town ect.

-when one player enters a place, it starts counting the seconds that player in there.

-next: the traffic/ai is no longer random. they follo a predictable pattern. (ie: red 4x4 always turns right)

-Therefore if you know the amout of time a player has been there, then you will also know where all the cars are, it will be like a algebra equation:

f(time) = car pos

-if a player enters a place where there already is another player, instead of starting at zero, the new players time is the old players time, so using the eq, that player will have the same cars

-the pattern will be looping.

-this way if you have the time the other player has been in there, then you know where his cars are, because it only takes a certain amount of time for them to move, and it wont change. plus sending a single number wont really add to lag.. if there is no other player, then you start count at zero..

Make sense?

-in the pseudo-server idea: if i am trailing a infernus, and then i enter another persons bubble, and they become pseudo-server, then i will stop seeing what i was and the inernus will disappear from my screen.

-on the other hand, using the "bubble" \ pseudo-server idea: rather that having one take over, possibly they could share cars.. by any rate my i dead would have the least lag

BTW: once again the techinical name for the "bubble" is donut

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here is some stuff i forgot too ad to my post above, and i am too lazy to edit it, the reply button was closer to my mouse :wink:

-if two people are in the same area and the ram or blow up a car, becuse the traffic and peds are synced, it will happen on both screens.. so even tho they are not synced over net, they react as tho they were

-problems tho:

--if one car blows up, and just then a car from a different district drives in, it will not figure in the eq (example above) so they will see a fresh car, not a blown up car...

--traffic will be borning.. possibly have an hour of looping traffic?

Problem in .02 and probably .03:

-right now the other players car is not actually driving. its just a parked car. and it changes the coordinates of the car, but the car has no inertia or momentum (not real, but the game simulates it) you can notice this if the other person hass a top heavy car.. when its placed it rockes back and forth.. its not actually moving. sooo if the servers car crashes into ai, on his screen it will knock the ai away.. but because there is no inertia on the client side.. it will just be placed on top or overlapping on the other car... do you see what i mean? so its not just as easy as syncing traffic anyway.

by anyrate it would be a shitload of work to do and i dont think it will be that terrible without ai.. but neways.. do you guys see how my idea could work?

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-in the pseudo-server idea: if i am trailing a infernus, and then i enter another persons bubble, and they become pseudo-server, then i will stop seeing what i was and the inernus will disappear from my screen.

Umm... If your trailing somthing it will just be going around circles and you will not end up going into another "zone" but I think your idea is very good and would probly be the best working one.

ok now for my oppinion witch has been kinda stolen and edited from other peoples posts...

1) there are only around 50 - 100 cars/peds every where at one time that are all synced (cant spell) this could generate lag but not as mych as everything being synced.

2) when you are at a place in the city you will have "synced trafic" and when u leave it it will disapear, basicaly the same as your viewing distance in singleplayer. if 2 people can see one area, both will be able to see what evers in that area. If people are in a cornet of a map the 3 other corners and middle will be empty.

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Okay, I'm not very technical, but would this work?

In gameplay, the game would load only a few peds and cars. Specific ones.

So lets say, there will be 10 peds and 10 cars spawned. It wouldn't matter what suburb you were in, as soon as you leave, say, Trenton, and go into Atlantic Quays, these 10 peds and 10 cars would spawn on the roads there. So, maybe one ped is, the business woman in black (b_wom1). On each persons screen, no matter what suburb they were in, they would see b_wom1. And as for the cars, every player, even if one player was driving around Chinatown and one driving around Trenton, they would always see, say, a Perennial driven by an old lady, p_wom1.

Would this work? This isn't for specific trailing, like if two players were both on each other's screen, one might see b_wom1 walking across the road, but the other wouldn't. This would just be "casual" ped and car spawning - not for important modes, just for scenery. I mean, c'mon, what's a city without other citizens and cars.

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when polcie are alerted who would they pursue? the server? who is their target, they dont even target other gangs that are shooting in the middle of a gang war, the only attack YOU so how will that balance out. it's hard to fathom any possible way to full synchronise everything although just the idea of 20 or so people playing live in team mode or all out deathmatch is good enough for now anyways. you could always have some sort of pre set parked car setup that all players could have access to so there would be vehicles at hand. I htink it would be easier to sync a non AI parked car than it would to sync peds/traffic/cops... and what about weather? will that be synced? or just random on everybodies game?

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