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Cheating (30/12/2003 @ 10:02 CET) by MTA Team


Blokker_1999

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Ok...WTF? Why aren't you guys responding to Rocket_Guns' question? Are you trying to avoid it? If you don't REMEMBER, I'll re-ask it for him:

WHAT IF SOME LAME BITCH DECIDES TO BAN YOU FOR NO REASON?!?!

Come on, answer the damn question and quit beating around it!

This "master ban" idea sounds horrible unless you Devs can give us a reason why the honest 75% of your users shouldn't be worried about this. And if you give a stupid answer like "Just contact us if you happen to get banned and we'll make sure you're off the list" - FORGET IT! That's bull too. You shouldn't expect that out of your users, and if that's the case, I'd rather just deal with the cheaters! I can always move to another server.

In the original News post, you said that this master ban list would apply to ALL servers and not just the official ones, but I honestly think that maybe it *should* only apply to the official ones if you're so concerned about cheaters.

Come on people! Let the MTA team know what a bad idea this is!

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  • MTA Team

Abuse of the ban list will happen, nothing we can do about it, it happens in every game that has such a list.

Half my old SOF2 clan is on the PB MBL of SOF2 because of the fucking clantag. When playing on jolt public servers (jolt is a company that rents gameservers) they got banned because they played with the clantag (which was also the name of our sponsor, a company where u can rent gameservers). Banned without warning, directly on the MBL.

Abuse will always happen. No matter what system you use! By default al servers wil run the MBL, but server admins will have the possibility to disable the MBL which will not be recommended and will mark servers as servers where cheaters could be on

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So remind us all why you're planning on using a master ban list at all then?

And what do you plan on doing for those who wrongly get banned?

From the News post, it sounded like you all had some kind of personal conflict with a group of cheaters which somehow inspired you to come up with this master ban idea. I know you've been fed up with cheaters for a while, but I can't think of any reason why a group of *independent* Devs such as yourselves would stoop so low as to implement the *same* type of anti-cheating strategy as everyone else? I mean, you just told me how much it sucks when someone gets wrongfully banned, so I don't understand your thinking in this matter(???). I'll give you a fake scenario and you can see for yourself why this is a bad idea:

Say some cheater wants to use his stupid rim mod or his mini-gun hack or whatever the hell he wants to use. He *rightfully* gets banned by an admin, gets pissed off and decides to take it out on everyone. So he changes his IP (or simply goes to a friend's house), sets up a server, and starts banning everyone who comes to his server left and right.

If I'm the poor SOB that happens to go to his server, I'm going to be pissed off at him AND the MTA team. Maybe it's an unlikely scenario, but I can speak for half of the non-cheaters here when I say that if I get banned like that, I'm not going to support MTA any longer. I can also speak for a lot of people (not all) when I say that I'd rather just deal with the cheaters myself and LEAVE the offended server. I've done it before and I'll continue to do it. I don't support cheating whatsoever, but I DO want the right to play on a server without getting perma-banned by some lame ass.

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  • MTA Team

The master ban system has been planned for a long time. It is in almost any game. Think of WON, STEAM, PunkBuster, ...

We haven't come up with the idea, but we will do our best to make it a fair system. The technical details like how to get on and off the list have not yet been completed.

We never stated we are gonna ban people by IP, something you do say. And yes even know people say they are banned wrongfully, but how do we know if they are banned wrongfully, we don't.

And you know what, you are so against the system you are sounding like a cheater who is trying to destabelise things before they have started. You know no facts yet you have made up your mind that it is bad

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Well, I hope you don't mean to say that 95% of your users are cheaters, because you might be offending a lot of people. Also, I wouldn't consider yourself in such an important position as the cops, because you might need to put a lot of people on trial first. :D

I'm kidding. But I do understand what you're trying to say. As long as you're asking my opinion, I'll give it to you (I already have, actually, but I'll restate):

I'd rather just leave the server that the cheater is on and join another one. OR, like I said, I prefer the idea of a server-ban and that's it. It's the master idea that I don't like.

But like I said, do what you like. It's your mod, not mine. And if I don't like something you do to it, I just wont play it. It's that simple. But I do want to play it, so I hope you do what's fair.

Thanks Blokker.

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[edited by Robpol86]

uhh... nice going trying to change the subject

[/edit]

post by xhispage: im sorry , I just wanted want everything to be as ppublic as possible...

Xanni

Edited by Guest
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I HATE CHEATERS , and I hope all cheaters burn! anyways , even thos my website is a little bad to , I realy hate the design , he uses a crapy CSS and a crapy javascript , it messes up my browser , TAKE THAT WEBSITE OFFLINE!!!

Xanni

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Is it possible to remind people that if everyone starts disliking MTA because of a master ban list then few people will play, after all you are making MTA for others to play, but if you put in things that upset everybody then no one will play an there will be no point in making MTA. Also it seems to me that if anyone seems to be making some kind of comment they can looked at as some kind cheater and then get flamed, its become ridiculous like some kind of witch hunt dont any of you believe in free speach?

Again I say have two types of server cheating and non cheating, this is what battlenet do for diablo they have open and closed servers, open is for cheating, what if 50% of ur MTA users come under your definition of cheating then that means you are denying a significant number of people the ability to play something they enjoy, after all how can you impose your way of doing things upon everyone else (apart from the fact your making MTA) for all you know 90% of ur users might like "cheating" of some manner. Hold a huge poll and ask ur users what they would like, isnt that the point of having discussion boards?

And i would like to clear the texture thingy up, wheel sizes are defined by the GTA collision files moifying a texture or even the whole model will not affect the collision files, it is these files they say how big the car is, just because ur car takes up 200 pixels on screen an ur collision file says ur car is 250 pixels then you will be driving around a big chunk of nothing and when u crash you will see the nothing crashes too. Speed of the car is defined by a sperate file. I know this because I mod things,

And if anyone calls me a cheater, I havent been playing MTA since version 0.1 Perhaps you should give people the ability to what they want and then your problem will lessen greatly, there will always be cheaters but if people get what they want and the rest of the community is ok with that then what's the problem? and somebody hold a poll about open or close server option

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  • MTA Team

r u an idiot, can't u read i have stated 3 times now that the server admin can decide whether or not to use the MBL on his/here server.

It is never up to the user but always up to the admin like in every god damn game. And if you wanted to piss me off, well you all succeeded in it

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  • MTA Team

You know what, i'm gonna lock this one down, congrats, u made a first lockdown of a thread in the news section guys.

I'm sick and tired of people stating the same thing over and over again. The first reaction were positive, but when the negative came it went downhill. All of a sudden people were commentating on a system that doesn't even excist. You know it was gonna fail and that it will ban the wrong people for the wrong reasons, while the team hasn't even started with the creation of the system

You were nagging about the fact that you couldn't get of the list or that your ip would be blocked without reading the fact that we still have to start designing the system and that it is highly unlickly that it will be based on IP adresses.

You are complaining about the fact that people wouldn't have a choice while it had been stated many times that the server admins will be given the choice.

Let this be a lesson:

*When you reply in a thread, make sure you have read everything, not just the first post and then start complaining about it. I know 40 replies is a lot but it is as bad as not using the search function

And more important : don't say that a system won't work or that a system is bad while the system hasn't even entered the first stage of design yet.

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well, I was playing one time, and I was just playing minding my own business, when I got banned, Iwasn't even near anyone else, and I jus subbenly get a message "you've been banned", and I still don't know why I was banned. I just hope you have a good system for this.

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Everything related to the 0.4 Core is still in the research & development phase, so anything is possible.

In the end, we may have a completely different system, we may use this one, we may use what we have. Who knows, no promises.

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Just to clarify something about the possible master ban list, entries would only be made by MTA team and the official servers admins (all of whom are deemed 100% trustworthy or they would not have admin in the first place) it would NOT take bans from private servers and include them, therefore you would not get some offended guy starting a server and banning a bunch of ips just to get them onto the master list. and much like the death penalty is used as a last resort when its beyond doubt that someone is guilty a players ip/ident would NOT be added to it unless there is valid grounds, so innocent gamers have nothing to fear from it.

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